Episode discussion post: "Jennings, Elizabeth"

[jae]

Aired:
23 May 2018 in the U.S. and Canada

This is a discussion post for episode 609 of The Americans, intended for viewers who are watching the show on the U.S./Canadian schedule. (Feel free to dive in to the discussion even if you're coming in late--and you should also feel free to start a new thread if it seems too daunting to read through what's already been posted first. If you're reading this at a point where you've already seen subsequent episodes, though, please take care to keep comments spoiler-free of anything that comes after season six, episode nine.)

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Comments

general stuff

[theplatonicnonyeah]

Hello! Long time no see. I'm sorry for going AWOL on this community for such a long time.

I just caught up with this season last week and watched the latest episode today. I cannot stand the tension! How on earth is this going to end!?

At the moment, I really only have one minor technical question: what was the system that Stan was searching through on his computer? Was it some sort of criminal record system? I didn't quite understand what he was looking for or what he expected to find.

Re: general stuff

[maidenjedi]

I'm not sure what system it was exactly, but I think he was looking to see if the names "Elizabeth Jennings" or "Philip Jennings" brought up possibly deceased individuals from whom the names might have come. Or he was looking for priors with identifying information (like on the Philip Jennings he did find). Likewise in looking up Dupont Circle Travel, just to see if there were investigations or anything relevant.

I don't think Stan knew exactly what he was looking for, either. Just throwing things at the wall, at this point, seeing what sticks, because his gut is telling him he already knows what's going on.

Re: general stuff

[jae]

Welcome back, you! Good to see you around.

-J

Re: general stuff

[(Anonymous)]

pp0I have a feeling that Phillip will end up with the woman who worked in his office and defected to Russia

A few things: Oleg/Stan, Paige/Elizabeth, Claudia, Andre

[maidenjedi]

So much to unpack, and only an episode left - my nails are down to the quick, y'all.

Oleg - Of all times for him to get caught! And his patriotism is awe-inspiring, frankly. The scene with him and Stan in the cell was really affecting. An American, even with Stan's experience, can't quite wrap his mind around an internal enemy, and even if he could, he can't be concerned with the politics. The funny thing is, if the roles were reversed, I think Oleg would help Stan - because their motivations are so very different.

More on Stan - Hard to know where to begin, but I felt a bit bad for him that Aderholt didn't really take his suspicions seriously. And also that he was clearly struggling mightily with the idea that Philip has lied to him - the scene at the travel agency was painfully awkward, but also, Stan has his own fellow-feeling for Philip reinforced in some ways, at least to my eyes. Everything else I'm thinking is speculation for what comes next, so I'll save it.

Paige/Elizabeth - It took this long for Paige to really absorb the fact that her mother never stopped lying to her? Really? I'm glad she finally called Elizabeth out on it, and not at all surprised that Elizabeth, in spite of all her moral crises in these last two episodes, tried to keep up the facade a little longer.

Claudia - I don't think she's going to leave. A huge part of me wonders whether she won't tip off the Center, putting E/P/P between them and the FBI. I just can't imagine her last act on the show is going to be calmly and defiantly eating a Russian meal. Or maybe it is, and we don't get to find out if she makes it out (where she will also, presumably, find that the suspicions against her faction in the party are not given credence, because Elizabeth's message doesn't reach them).

Andre - Wow, dude, wow. I find it hard to believe he's so naive that he didn't realize what was happening, and I wonder if he was trying to ensure that he wouldn't be the only one who went down, by having that meeting in so public a place (or really at all, when he knew the "American authorities" were circling).

Elizabeth's message

[lovingboth]

What makes you think it doesn't reach its intended recipients?

"I also contacted Gorbachev's people. I told them everything you were planning" suggests it already has.

While watching thoughts

[lovingboth]

Nice reminder in the previously that Oleg isn't safe from two sides...

Some pointed 'watching you' camera work on Philip as he approaches the dead letter box.

Oh no, your neighbours don't have a criminal record :) Interesting that he looks up Elizabeth first.

Wouldn't searches be logged, with the potential for Stan to be asked why he's looking up these names?

I do wonder what Elizabeth could do if someone competent tried to assassinate him.

Look who's come through the door.

'We made a new set' :)

Ha at the fight being about "work"!

That's a small flashback.

At last, one legitimate lead for Stan to follow up..

.. albeit done incredibly badly by him.

Nice ethical dilemma for Pastor Tim, who clearly isn't saying quite a lot in his responses. "Not really" isn't a 'no', it's an invitation to ask more.

More odd flashback.

Similarly Stan's clearly wanting to talk to Dennis about something rather than just socialise.

Love the 'Are you losing it?' look Dennis gives Stan.

Second questioning of a priest this episode, pointedly different from the first. And this one is a lot happier to talk. To the point that I wonder why they had to "insist" he came in.

This is when you want a diplomatic passport!

Ah, these flashbacks are Elizabeth being like Paige.

Why on earth wasn't what he picked up plausibly deniable? And what's so incriminating about it that Oleg doesn't just laugh when told he's facing a lifetime in prison?

It'd be funny if it's Renee who Elizabeth is about to kill. Hopefully correctly.

'Stan, let's break the rules again.'

'Nah, do a much bigger betrayal that'd have you killed.'

(The lighting of this scene doesn't work for me - it's far too artistic for a real cell.)

Speaking of much bigger betrayals... 'Hi, Claudia, I've killed your killer and told the people I have suddenly decided are the good guys on our side everything'.

I'm not buying Claudia's reaction either. It should be pulling a gun for a start.

(Interesting camera work - from the side, Claudia is shown close to the side of the screen she's looking at, whereas Elizabeth is much further away in more than one way.)

I do like the way Claudia ends the conversation though, eating the nice Russian food. I'd be on the phone as soon as the door closes though!

Deliberate choice not to show whether Father Andrei's being watched before this meeting with Philip. (Looks at episode number) He probably is, though, isn't he? And if this is being photographed, as it should be, even Stan should be able to recognise Philip.

He's going down some long streets, rather than short ones with lots of corners to go round. Ah, at last, somewhere with lots of options for him to take.

'That's great you shagged him for fun, I've just ended both our careers...'

Ha!! Paige going "Was it you?!?" about shagging the intern is the best confrontation of the series. I said Elizabeth should have killed him.

Pointed 'don't lie to me' from Paige given what Elizabeth said to Claudia.

I'd be bringing up how naive Paige was over the idea of sex for food.

Erm, why isn't Elizabeth getting out asap?? The chances of someone from the Centre being out to get revenge is 'almost certain', I'd have thought. Instead, never mind doing normal stuff in the kitchen a few scenes ago, she's smoking inside.

At last, even if it takes a coded 'It's all gone pear-shaped' call from Philip to get her on the run.

I'd have thought the escape kit would be permanently packed! And to have some way to quickly destroy anything that shouldn't end up in the FBI's hands.

Nice that it doesn't end with a the clunky cliffhanger I was fearing, while still setting up the next episode nicely.

Happens every day, obviously

[lovingboth]

Ah, that was the other thing: you're a high level Soviet delegation in the enemy's capital.

A woman in a wig is just murdered behind you. She's clearly been shot deliberately and she clearly isn't quite dead yet - various limbs are twitching.

Do you a) vaguely touch her wrist then stand around on the steps, not giving her any more assistance, waiting to see if a sniper hit her rather than you?

Or b) GTFO ASAP.

Perhaps it's the reaction of the natives - wandering past going 'Oh, another person has been randomly shot, still it doesn't look like I'm in any danger, and someone else will probably call the police' - that means they picked the first one.

I'm still wondering why they don't have at least one armed minder though.

Re: While watching thoughts

[sistermagpie]

Wouldn't searches be logged, with the potential for Stan to be asked why he's looking up these names?

It's not like Stan's hiding why he's doing it. He's allowed.

Why on earth wasn't what he picked up plausibly deniable? And what's so incriminating about it that Oleg doesn't just laugh when told he's facing a lifetime in prison?

I think the FBI can totally put him in prison for espionage.

Re: While watching thoughts

[quantumreality]

The smash cut to black caught me by surprise, really! I was on the edge of my seat as Elizabeth gathered her go-bag and prepared to skedaddle :D

not really

[treonb]

It's definitely not "no", but I didn't see it as an invitation to ask more. Stan could have continued prying, though I guess he realized that even if Tim was hiding something, there was nothing he could do about it

My review

[selenak]

The FBI: choosing the worst time to arrest Oleg. Though I guess that means Oleg won't die. (Since thankfully, he doesn't have a cyanid pill.) Mind you, could also be "will not die yet, within the time space of the show", because even if Oleg does get released in a few years and returns to Russia, the forces behind the attempted coup will be in ascendence again, depressingly enough. The scene with Stan was great, both for the things said and unsaid; all the facial acting was superb. I was hoping Oleg would make a "save Gorbachev, save the world" appeal to Stan when push came to shove, though alas Stan doesn't seem to get it. (Though he will, in time, find out quite how much difference the person leading Russia does indeed make.) And I loved that Oleg does tell Stan this yet absolutely refuses to betray the Illegals, which I think would be true even if Philip weren't currently helping him. Patriotism: motivating all leading characters other than Paige (and Henry) right now.

(Against the odds, I still hope Stan will change his mind, because I want Arkady and friends to know both Elizabeth and Philip came through. More about this in a minute when I get to the Elizabeth-Claudia scene.)

Having known my share of monks, though not Russian Orthodox ones, I find it entirely realistic that inter-monk resentment contributes to uncovering our antiheroes. Plus, good lord, Andreji, how naive are you not to tell Philip this from the start?

On the other hand, Pastor Tim keeps mum when Stan questions him. I do wonder how much of this is confidentiality ethics, and how much awareness that if he shares what he knows about the Jennings family, he'll be accused of aiding and abetting and end up in prison as well? (Especially since he's been out of the country for years at this point and thus can't claim he and his family were threatened into keeping quiet.) It's a bit ironic that Tim, whom Philip and Elizabeth spent so much time worrying about ever since Paige started her Christianity phase, in the end never was a danger to their secrets, while Father Andrej, whom they got into contact with via Gabriel and who was okay'd by the KGB, might have sealed their fates?

The flashback to young Elizabeth: "You don't leave a comrade dying in the streets." Trying to follow the letter of her instructions, she missed the spirit, and now tries to apply that lesson to the current day, but there the question is: who is her comrade? Nesteryenko the negotiator (and by larger implication Gorbachev) or the KGB operative following the orders she refused to? She saves one and leaves the other dying in the streets. But if she'd chosen not to act, the reverse would have been true.

Elizabeth and Claudia: so much to unpack here. Elizabeth telling Claudia what she'd done probably has more than one reason. Among other things: if she hadn't, Claudia & Co. could have assumed an US operative (or someone else) killed their operative and would simply have tried again. Or: as far as Elizabeth knows/assumes, the message she gave Philip for Oleg got through. (P & E don't know how precarious Oleg's own situation is right now, or that he was arrested before he could even decode the message.) Meaning the pro-Gorbachev faction at home is warned. Soviet history isn't full of precedents for mercy if you try a coup and fail, so Elizabeth could, as she says, been intending to give Claudia a headstart to make her escape. Or: maybe Elizabeth doubts whether or not the message got through, but if she claims it did, she knows the anti-Gorbachev-faction will out themselves anyway. Or: Elizabeth needs to confess, as young Nadeshda had done. She's made the reverse choice young Nadeshda did, chose not to obey her instructions to the letter and instead go against them to save someone (by killing someone else), but a part of her is still torn whether or not she's chosen right this time. Or all of the above.

Now, as to Claudia's reaction. No, I'm not surprise she didn't try to attack Elizabeth physically in retaliation but remained stoic. Claudia isn't suicidal. (They're both trained killers, but Elizabeth is decades younger and fitter.) Also, what would be the point at that very moment? Otoh, do I think Claudia will leave it at her version of "I'm so disappointed in you"? Perhaps - as I do believe she saw in Elizabeth a sort of daughter-via-the-service -, but she's just as capable of telling someone else to take Elizabeth (and/or Philip) out before she leaves these shores (if she does), both as a way to cover her escape and as a demonstration of what happens if you betray her version of the cause. (Remember, the one time we've seen Claudia take revenge on someone, it happened after that person considered themselves safe and thought all the drama was over.)

"You lied to me" in this scene as well as Elizabeth's issues about lying being brought up in the earlier Philip & Andrej conversation is of course building up to the final scene between Elizabeth and Paige, when the shoe is on the other foot, and Elizabeth is faced with the fact she's been lying to Paige constantly, far beyond professional necessity or justification. Paige mirrors her own indignation back at her. It's by far the most efficient use of parallels between Elizabeth and Paige since season 2 or thereabouts. As in the confrontation with Claudia, there are several layers and motives here. Elizabeth has gone out of her way to deny there was such a thing as sex as a spying tool to Paige throughout the season. As she's shielded her from knowing about the people Elizabeth killed, but I don't think it was just to protect Paige from another unpleasant aspect of being a secret agent. It's also because there was no way Paige, the naive who wouldn't believe a young Claudia had sex for food, would see this as anything but degrading, when the whole being an agent gig had been sold to her as something empowering. And it's because talking about it, confessing to it, would force Elizabeth herself to face that aspect in a way she just doesn't want to.

(Two seasons back Philip once asked her "do you ever think about the way we learned how to do this" after the audience saw the gruesome training montage of young Mischa learning to have sex with just about anyone on command, and Elizabeth, turning away, just said "no!")

When Elizabeth at the end of the argument with Paige insists that sex didn't mean anything, she is and isn't telling the truth. Having sex with strangers for decades wasn't the most traumatizing aspect of their jobs for either her or Philip. But it could turn disastrous, and it could turn very personal indeed, as when Martha told "Jennifer" about how great Clark was in the sack. And of course Gregory started out as an asset for the KGB and then became Elizabeth's first relationship that wasn't just sexual but romantic on her part. To say nothing of the most recent work/sex disaster, i.e. Elizabeth telling Philip to get Kimmy into the scheme du jour by all means possible and afterwards accusing him of specifically the sexual aspect of this. No, sex never was just a meaningless nothing.

(This being said, it's telling about Paige, all American girl, as well that this is what finally gets her to stop believing into the cosmetic version of spying and question what Elizabeth tells her, and that she responds with "you whore". Elizabeth telling her about a man whose brains she has all over her face just having spontaneously committed suicide? Totally believable, and already forgotten. But an "older woman" having had sex with an intern of Paige's generation? OMG this must have been her mother and how could she!)

Elizabeth going back to the house after her confrontation with Claudia and staying there until Philip calls: again, I think several reasons. There's the practical one: she's just ended things with Claudia's branch of the KGB. There's no further task for her from that end, and where would she hear from the pro-Gorbachev-faction? Philip is the one who's met a representative. There's the emotional one: Claudia's cutting' "what's left for you now? Your house, your American children, your husband"? Essentially, yes, except that she knows she's lost one child emotionally and is about to lose the other. And she's sent Philip to meet Andrej in her place, so it's not like he's at the agency. He's likely to go home afterwards. The house was their home for all these years, not just their pretend home but their real home, and it's the last safe (for now) space that's left. Where else would she wait? And that's what she's doing. Waiting for the rest of her life to crash down or for Philip? Both.

Claudia's reaction

[lovingboth]

I wasn't expecting a physical fight, but I'd be very disappointed if she doesn't keep a gun under the table.

Re: My review

[sistermagpie]

On the other hand, Pastor Tim keeps mum when Stan questions him. I do wonder how much of this is confidentiality ethics, and how much awareness that if he shares what he knows about the Jennings family, he'll be accused of aiding and abetting and end up in prison as well? (Especially since he's been out of the country for years at this point and thus can't claim he and his family were threatened into keeping quiet.)

Probably some of it is just instinct. He's been keeping that secret for so long it would take a lot for him to change how he deals with it. Stan calling up from out of the blue was only going to get information if Tim had already had some change of heart so he was ready to tell if it came up.

but a part of her is still torn whether or not she's chosen right this time. Or all of the above.

I liked how unsure of herself Elizabeth looked there. Not as if she was doubting what she'd done, but she didn't have the fire in her eye of someone who knew she'd done the right thing imo.

abeth's issues about lying being brought up in the earlier Philip & Andrej conversation is of course building up to the final scene between Elizabeth and Paige, when the shoe is on the other foot, and Elizabeth is faced with the fact she's been lying to Paige constantly, far beyond professional necessity or justification.

Thinking about this I also remembered how Philip told Andrei that Elizabeth felt he'd broken his wedding vows and he agreed he had--but Elizabeth hasn't seemed to have thought much about how she's been as a wife since then. I wonder if Paige's line about Philip not being able to stand being in the same room with her surprised her.

[saraqael]

Part of me can't believe that there's only one episode before the show ends because there's so much left to cover, but on the other hand, I suppose that the sudden way that everything is crashing down around the Jennings is what it would have felt like to them. After years of successfully deceiving everyone and overcoming danger, suddenly it's ending for them (and us) and there's no time to think and plot and act. There's only time to cut and run.

I was dismayed when the FBI picked up Oleg with Philip's secret message in his pocket because Oleg no longer has the protection of his consulate job to protect him. He faces years of jail in the US for espionage, or else expelled back to Russia to an uncertain fate there. I hope that his clear, honest discussion with Stan does get through Stan's'thick head,' but there's no guarantee that it will. From Stan's perspective, one Soviet dictator is no different from any other. Only the show's Russian characters know how much is riding on Gorbachev's success. Right now, Stan is viewing the entire situation only through the filter of his job: Russian spies are the enemy, there's been a huge amount of murders lately, and he's going to take them down. He doesn't care what's going on back home in Mother Russia to cause all of this. He just wants it to stop spilling over into the US. Still, I'm hoping that his respect for Oleg motivates him to help Oleg somehow.

Speaking of Stan, even though he's still clearly suspicious of the Jennings, he's still concerned about Philip as a friend that he offered to loan him money to save the business. It's like Stan's 85% sure that Philip is a spy, but just in case he isn't, Stan wants to help him. Sweet, but also sad.

The would-be assassin who Elizabeth shot to save Nesterenko: was that Tatiana? It looked like her but I wasn't sure. They showed her in the 'previously' section so I think it was her. Assuming it was, you know the revelation of her identity is going to cause shock waves in the Russian and US intelligence groups. It might also be enough of a shock to sway Stan to lean more in Oleg's favor because it would help to validate what Oleg told him about the power play against Gorbachev.

I almost wanted to shake Father Andrei when he told Philip that one of his colleagues was going to the FBI to tattle on him that very day. He was like, "hey, should I be worried about this?" Hell yes, man. You should definitely be worried. When Philip took off running, I honestly thought that he might be caught. That was a terrifying moment.

Elizabeth's flashback memory about failing to help the injured man back in Russia certainly helps to explains why she is now so insistent on helping Nesterenko now. Never leave a fallen comrade behind. No matter what, we must always help each other. It explains her anger towards Claudia who was setting up an innocent comrade to be killed. Elizabeth's conflict with Claudia went even deeper than that though. 'You lied to me. If you knew me, you'd know never to lie to me.' Kind of an ironic comment given that when she went home, Paige stormed in and had an absolute tantrum because Elizabeth lied to her, and has been lying to her for years. Like mother, like daughter.

Gotta confess here that I thought the scene with Paige felt very forced and OTT to me. "Mom, you're a lying whore!1!1!" "Paige, you're a naive American brat. Get over it. Pack your go-bag. See you in the getaway car in a few minutes."

Think they'll stop and get Henry before they scram off to Canada?

PS: Was pleased to see that Pastor Tim didn't betray the Jennings'secret to Stan, much as he might have wanted to. Spies aren't the only ones who routinely have to keep secrets. I still think it's a huge stretch that Stan knew how to contact him, but whatevers... the plot needed it to happen.

Picking up Henry and Stan

[sistermagpie]

Think they'll stop and get Henry before they scram off to Canada?

That's definitely the plan! Though it seems suicidal.

I was dismayed when the FBI picked up Oleg with Philip's secret message in his pocket because Oleg no longer has the protection of his consulate job to protect him. He faces years of jail in the US for espionage, or else expelled back to Russia to an uncertain fate there. I hope that his clear, honest discussion with Stan does get through Stan's'thick head,' but there's no guarantee that it will. From Stan's perspective, one Soviet dictator is no different from any other. Only the show's Russian characters know how much is riding on Gorbachev's success. Right now, Stan is viewing the entire situation only through the filter of his job: Russian spies are the enemy, there's been a huge amount of murders lately, and he's going to take them down. He doesn't care what's going on back home in Mother Russia to cause all of this. He just wants it to stop spilling over into the US. Still, I'm hoping that his respect for Oleg motivates him to help Oleg somehow.

There's also the fact that Stan's starting to suspect he's been duped by the Jennings--and Philip--for years. So he's probably mad as hell at the Soviets and not primed to trust any of them.

[(Anonymous)]

Pastor Tim can't be really sure that really is an FBI agent on the phone; he has to consider that it might be someone who works for Phillip/Elizabeth and is testing him.

[beer_good_foamy]

Yowza.

Possible Dostoevsky nod in CGI!Elizabeth's flashback to the dying horse?

Excellent episode overall, with just the Paige scene feeling a bit forced (her boyfriend just happened to run into Elizabeth's cast-off while he just happened to be talking about her, how big is this town anyway?).

So the surveillance photos of Philip and Saint Andrei The Clueless aren't in yet, huh? Probably won't be a sharp image, but... anyone watched Barry? "If you knew him, you'd know who whe was."

I completely buy Claudia's reaction, btw. For all she knew, Elizabeth was there to kill her; any quick move would just have ended with her growing a third eye.

I've been thinking all season about what Elizabeth is fighting for now. I like that she finds something, here at the end of all things. The idea that there isn't one mother country, indivisible, to fight for, but that she has to pick a side even there. Much like Oleg; loved his scene with Stan of the Thick Skull Tribe.

No pop music montage in the second-to-last episode, are they saving up to license a Zeppelin tune in the finale or what?

"Topsy turvy." Have we had any mention of that as a code word previously in the series?

Also, a forgotten arc: We get another mention of Stan's girlfriend, about whom we STILL don't know if she's part of this, and if so, on which side...

Stan's girlfriend

[theplatonicnonyeah]

I so want Renée to be another KGB agent in hiding, who has basically just successfully honey-trapped both an FBI agent and managed to get employed by them. I mean, if Stan dies, I want her to somehow have revealed herself to him first or have him realise it in the last moments of his life.

Tatiana

[theplatonicnonyeah]

Didn't anyone else catch the fact that it was Tatiana, formerly of the Bureau, that Elizabeth shot on those steps?

Re: Tatiana

[lovingboth]

Not on first viewing, but when I later looked again slowly to see just how many people were standing around, yes - an indication of how few of the KGB really are in the plot or just a way of saving on the casting budget? :)

Sistermagpie's Thoughts on Jennings, Elizabeth

[sistermagpie]

Wow, so much in this one! I don't even know what to say about it. Others have covered a lot of great things so these were just some things that struck me.

If I never see Desperate Travel Agent Philip again it will be too soon.

I like how this ep brings back the two men of God and has them act exactly the way they've always been. Pastor Tim basically covers his own ass while also keeping the secret. Paige was great...her parents were not. in. his. church.

Father Andrei was needy and clingy when Philip first met him and now that's their downfall. Dude insists on an in-person meeting and chats about marriage before casually mentioning they're probably under surveillance. Not that he understood that.

Loved the chase scene. Of all the little details I liked how Philip ducked behind someone on the street before running for just that split second extra.

Lots of Russians telling people it turns out they never "got them." Claudia to Elizabeth, Oleg to Stan, Elizabeth to Paige. Claudia really just is exactly who she always was to the end, calmly eating her soup. I think she'll survive. Elizabeth really did look lost at the idea of not having the Centre, but as ever Claudia doesn't understand the value of Elizabeth's family. I like how Paige just goes back to being the American kid they both always knew she was. Philip is the thing Elizabeth really does still have.

The Paige/Elizabeth scene...what I didn't like was it did feel hugely convenient for Paige to quickly have this conversation that gave her a clue at last. It is a bit of a shame for all her incompetence as a spy to maybe go nowhere, but maybe that was just always part of showing her attitude. And it might come up next week (tragically).

Other than that I really find Paige's weird mind fascinating. This scene seemed to just toss away the fiction that Paige has ever been Russian or even really into the Cause.

This season has had a lot of call-backs to S1. Here we had Elizabeth spitefully but accidentally sending Philip into a trap--he accidentally sent her into a trap in S1 (but not spitefully, and he had to save himself here). Plus S1 had Paige fighting with her mom about the separation and taking Philip's side. Not so much because she always really sides with Philip, but he's handy when Paige is angry at Elizabeth and so no longer currying her favor.

That's what I found so fascinating. Many have said they find it weird that *this* is what turns Paige off after being adjacent to tons of Elizabeth's murders and looking the other way. But it actually makes sense. Paige's obsession has never really been about spying. It's about her parents' marriage. She thought the spying explained it, but it doesn't. In fact her mother just threw her another curve ball with the honeytrapping.

She just confessed to Elizabeth that she has no friends and her biggest fear is being alone but she tells herself someday she'll meet her version of Philip. She's always been jealous of the bond they have. She told Elizabeth in S2 that she saw her and Philip looking out for each other more than the kids--she always understood that they were more deeply bonded to each other. She walked in on them having sex. She's mixed up sex and spying for several seasons. Here again she mixes up Elizabeth's telling her to not spy on her boyfriend with telling Paige who do date or accusing her of only dating people to get info. She imagined affairs for them left and right before she knew the truth.

With Matthew when she broke up with him she complained that he didn't know her at all and all they did was make out. Of course that referred to her not being able to tell him the truth, but in retrospect it's also maybe a frustration--why is she just making out with someone without feeling that closeness?

She's just really struggled, it seemed, with wanting the intimacy her parents have and also being unsure how these two very flawed people deserve it. Here she goes back to her season 1 attitude where Elizabeth is the bad guy. She's never been able to get into Philip's head about the marriage--she's never tried, even. (Even after walking in on them 69-ing it was Elizabeth she fixated on at breakfast.) She identifies more with Elizabeth, tries to be her like that will give her what she wants. All season she's kind of dismissed Philip, having never really seen his spy-side, adopting her mother's attitude. Now she swings back to her mom being a whore and Philip being the innocent partner who rightfully can't stand her.

Then here's Elizabeth telling her Philip knows this--Paige may or may not have understood that Elizabeth was saying that Philip did this too. All the lessons with Claudia can't explain it to her. Yes, people really do have sex for food. Paige really did think that was a joke. She wasn't just laughing out of nervousness or copying them.

I just really like how Paige's story, no matter how easy it was to push it as her being a future spy, is really about a kid obsessed with her parents' marriage and trying to work out that aspect of her life for herself via her mom. Now she's self-righteously going to be with Brian because they really like each other--her relationship is the pure one now. Her mother's is not what it seemed to Paige. Except it actually is. She just doesn't get it.

Re: Sistermagpie's Thoughts on Jennings, Elizabeth

[sistermagpie]

Also in the Paige/Elizabeth scene, Paige is telling Elizabeth that Henry, too, is repulsed by her and went to school to get away from her.

Back in S1 Elizabeth said Claudia was unlovable or words to that effect and seemed to be also speaking of herself. While Paige seems to fear being unlovable herself. So here she's saying that she herself is loved because she's normal and pure, with a guy that she likes and likes her back. While Elizabeth is repulsive.

I do wonder if that line about Philip, especially, was a bit of a wake up moment like when Martha talked about Clark in bed. Not because Philip really feels that way but because it makes her think about how he feels about her and how she's failed him potentially.

[shapinglight]

Couldn't get to watch the episode in my usual way (hope that won't be the case next week) but have finally managed it.

Feeling desperately sad for Oleg. It wouldn't entirely surprise me if the scene in the cell with Stan is the last we see of him.

I feel sad for Elizabeth too. She's made her choice, and though I think she made the right choice, and it's had the consequence of cutting her adrift from all her support systems, save for Philip. She must feel horribly alone.

I'm not much good at speculating, but I suspect this isn't going to end well for a lot of characters, and I can't stop thinking about that cyanide pill.

[saraqael]

If that scene of Oleg in the cell is the last we ever see of him, I will cry. He deserves a much better fate. Though I suppose it could be worse. Oleg could arrange to get the espionage charges dropped and he could go home to discover that his family has been arrested and then he's arrested there. Better an American jail than a Russian jail.

And yeah...they still haven't disposed of the cyanide pill so that's still in play.

Treon's thoughts

[treonb]

Wow, what an episode!

When Philip was walking away from Father Andrei, I almost thought he was over-reacting. But the FBI probably had the priest followed for weeks now.

Oleg is amazing. He's got so much to lose personally if he doesn't talk to the FBI. And it's not so clear to me it will be worse for his country if he does.

His request from Stan makes sense, but Stan's response also makes sense. No way can he send a coded message just on Oleg's say-so.

I didn't recognize Tatiana, thanks to everybody for pointing it out.

Elizabeth walking out on Claudia - I was really expecting Claudia to pull out a gun, or for Elizabeth to kill her first. Even if it was too risky for Claudia to take out Elizabeth then and there, she has an agent going rogue. I'd expect the Center to also be out for the Jennings.

While Paige was yelling at Elizabeth, Elizabeth didn't get to tell her the most major news. Sort of like how Elizabeth didn't let Philip tell her what was going on.

So far everybody's alive. Now I'm afraid for next week...

Oleg

[jae]

Oleg really is amazing here. Who knew when we first met him that this is what he'd end up being (after a whole bunch of personal growth, of course)?

-J

Emotional mess

[alisonx]

It's been SUCH a long time since I read this dreamwidth but I am in disbelief that we have only one more episode to go and I am so upset by how good this episode was!!! I just want this show to go on forever.

If this were any other episode Philip would've gotten away from Andrei no problemo but now he has to sprint for his life. I am in PANIC MODE for their getaway.

Re: Emotional mess

[jae]

So good to see you here!

The sprint had my heart in my throat, too. Even on third viewing (yes, I watched the episode three times over the course of one VERY LONG day of international travel).

-J

Separate lives

[lovingboth]

How many other episodes have had no in-person meetings between Philip and Elizabeth?

Re: Separate lives

[jae]

I think that would be ZERO. Good catch.

-J

Dennis Aderholt

[quantumreality]

Has anyone else noticed that he appears to be at least the de facto head of Counterintelligence now? A pretty prestigious post for a POC in the FBI in the 1980s, I'd think.

Also it was very amusing to see Proxy Snyder, I mean Agent Wolfe, back for a cameo.