Episode discussion post: "Clark's Place"

[jae]

Aired:
13 April 2016 in the U.S. and Canada

This is a discussion post for episode 405 of The Americans, intended for viewers who are watching the show on the U.S./Canadian schedule. (Feel free to dive in to the discussion even if you're coming in late--and you should also feel free to start a new thread if it seems too daunting to read through what's already been posted first. If you're reading this at a point where you've already seen subsequent episodes, though, please take care to keep comments spoiler-free of anything that comes after season four, episode five.)

Original promo trailer

"The Americans 4x05 Promo "Clark's Place" (HD)" (Watch on YouTube)

Overnight reviews

From Vulture
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From Hitfix
From Vox
From Entertainment Weekly
From Slate (official podcast)
From the LA Times
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From Slant
From IGN
From tv.com
From TV Fanatic
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From Geeks of Doom
People's World
From Inverse
From For the Win
From Hidden Remote
From Mstarsnews
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From The Young Folks
From TV Over Mind
From Celebrity Dirty Laundry

Comments

general comment

[theplatonicnonyeah]

Whoa, that ending!
Which was quite different than last weeks ending.

I just...no, I did not need that visual.
But yes, it's quite obvious that Elizabeth isn't handling the whole Martha situation so well, considering she needs to aggressively f*ck Philip to assert her position as First Wife.

It is definitely an interesting dilemma; how to love you real wife, while still feeling very strongly about your fake one? I think that Philip loves them both, but in different ways. In particular because they are such different people. He knows that Elizabeth can protect herself, if need be. But Martha is basically a sitting duck hiding in plain sight at the moment. His conscience probably plays a huge part in this, as we've seen throughout the whole past season. Innocent bystanders getting killed because of him are crowding up in his mind. He desperately wants to save Martha, but there is very little chance he can.

But going back to the rest of the episode, there were at least three subtle shifts in the relationships and trust between some people:
1. Paige and her parents. She has been going back and forth with the whole Pastor Tim thing and KGB. Now when Elizabeth asks her to make up with him, she is quiet for a long time and just says "right", before going off to bed. To me this signalled a decision within her to not be loyal to them anymore, or rather to be loyal to her own feelings, whichever path those would lead her down.

2. Martha and Clark. She has started taking valium for panic attacks. There really is only so much pressure she can take now before cracking. Then she asks: "Why would I expect to keep anything?" Indeed, not even their wedding photograph is safe in his apartment. For a moment, I thought that maybe Clark removing the photo was a subtle hint for her that they had been revealed. But that was probably not the case. Martha's mistrust in him is growing every day.

3. Arkady and Oleg. We all thought Arkady was on Nina's side, but was he really? You can see that Oleg decides to hold back, especially when declining a drink together with his former (?) comrade. Oleg is on his own now, with whatever it is he has planned.

Paige is so right that there is a "grown-up conspiracy"! On the other hand, maybe that's how we've all felt as teenagers.

Funniest moment: Elizabeth laughing at Reagan and calling him a clown.
Saddest moment: Clark saying "I love you" and Martha replying "Tell me Tuesday". I sort of don't think there will be a Tuesday. The way they filmed Clark walking away from the apartment felt like a final shot and goodbye for that character.

Elizabeth and Martha

[lovingboth]

I saw it as Elizabeth consciously using sex to make Philip feel better rather than herself.

He is absolutely concerned about Martha, but I find it difficult to believe that Elizabeth feels threatened by her. She's concerned about Philip staying committed to the cause and we've seen earlier this time what losing someone does to people's commitment when they blame the cause for the loss.

There will be a Tuesday, and the gun - reminders two weeks in a row! - will be there too.

Re: general comment

[sistermagpie]

But yes, it's quite obvious that Elizabeth isn't handling the whole Martha situation so well, considering she needs to aggressively f*ck Philip to assert her position as First Wife.

I don't think it was only that. They'd just talked about Martha and I think they were both dealing with his feelings for her out in the open. So yeah, them having sex is a way of saying "You have your real wife" but I don't think even Elizabeth would think that was a particularly good point to make right now. Seems like that would just make Philip feel more loyal to Martha to imagine himself enjoying sex with the wife he prefers anyway.

I thought the sex was a culmination of a number of things. Connecting in the Martha crisis, yes, but also after everything else that was going on. And I think Elizabeth also just primarily wanted to have sex. She was getting the release she wanted and also expressing care for Philip.

To me this signalled a decision within her to not be loyal to them anymore, or rather to be loyal to her own feelings, whichever path those would lead her down.

Interesting...I don't know. I think she just hasn't worked out exactly how far she'd go and what she'd have to do since she doesn't know the situation. I feel like she gets the situation with her parents and is loyal to them in that she wants to protect them. Beyond that she wasn't loyal to begin with. She's always expressed her doubts about what they do--and here was maybe using Pastor Tim to ask those questions. I think she didn't like adding lies to her relationship with Pastor Tim. But that's life. Her complaining that adults got to do whatever they wanted was of course ridiculous regarding her parents. They rarely get to just do what they want. Elizabeth even told her that way back when, but Paige is still somewhat in that adolescent stage where she sees the freedom of adulthood without the responsibilities. She wants to have it both ways--her parents should tell her the truth...but if she can't handle it she can go to somebody else.

We all thought Arkady was on Nina's side, but was he really? You can see that Oleg decides to hold back, especially when declining a drink together with his former (?) comrade. Oleg is on his own now, with whatever it is he has planned.

I think Arkady was on Nina's side, but was genuinely angry at what he saw as her letting him down. And Oleg got that.

Paige

[treonb]

I don't think she decided not to be loyal. I think she decided she had a better way of dealing with it, and indeed her approach was extremely effective.

She didn't forgive Pastor Tim, but she did exactly what her parents told her to do - she made him think she still trusts him.

So I don't know if that's what she meant to do, but I'd like to think it is.

Funniest moment

[treonb]

I nominate:

P: You think that guy's really a priest?
E: I don't know.

Philip's "love" for his two wives

[jae]

I think that Philip loves them both, but in different ways.

My read is that he's fond of Martha, and maybe even loves her as an individual person who is loveable and who he now knows really well, but he doesn't actually love her as a wife. That may not actually matter at this point, though--his completely existent and legitimate fondness for her has been making Elizabeth jealous for a little while now.

-J

Arkady and Oleg

[jae]

I saw that as the start of a schism between them that will likely have fallout later. I don't think Arkady handled things well, but I also think Oleg was in part displacing his anger toward his father onto Arkady (some of which probably actually had to do with Nina, and some of which probably had more to do with the overall dynamic between them).

Oleg is also starting to see the cracks in his country's system in a way that he might not have ever allowed himself to do before. Even his hyperloyal father allowed himself to utter the words "The whole country's going to shit." That's got to make an impact, together with everything else that's going on.

-J

Chiming in on Elizabeth's reasons for sex

[apolla_savre]

I read in some magazine that an advice for when a guy is upset, to have a crunchy snack available - this was an article about discussing difficult situations (like loss of a loved one, financial difficulties) and how to be there for your boyfriend (it was probably like Cosmo or something, I feel like I read it while I waited for my sister to finish a hair cut or something.) Its reasoning for the crunchy snack was that the crunchy texture would allow him to focus/expend nervous energy on something harmless.

I kind of figured that Elizabeth offered food (a comfort choice) and then moved to sex when that didn't work because a) it would get his mind off of his problems, b) it would feel good, and c) it would expend the nervous energy/need to do something without him breaking something/doing something like he did in Martial Eagle where he threatened Pastor Tim.

friendships

[theplatonicnonyeah]

This is a somewhat unfinished line of thought about friendships in this episode.

There were quite a few mentions or allusions to friends during the episode.
Elizabeth rambling about Henry's lack of friends his own age (possibly as a way of taking Philip's mind off the Martha business). Then Philip going over to patch things up with Stan (who makes some really misogynistic remarks about Sandra!). And later, Henry laughing at Elizabeth's claim to have friends, which is true since she was on a mission, but untrue for her cover story.

Gabriel and William seemed to have a long standing friendship of sorts.

But all in all almost everyone is hiding something from someone else, so that they can't be true friends, because there is no fundamental trust in each other.

Re: friendships

[sistermagpie]

Seriously, Stan was such a jerk about Sandra and that whole interaction with Philip was so all about Stan asserting himself as the alpha male.

While watching thoughts

[lovingboth]

Thoughtful looking Martha, alone - I particularly like the shot of her as the only person on the sofa. Then when Clark arrives, both of them continue being as honest as they can be with each other. I love the '... and?' look on his face, but I think the concern is not just for himself.

'Why would I expect to keep anything?'

Elizabeth panic awakening is a deliberate echo of Martha talking about her panic attack, but Paige is not going to be satisfied with not getting answers from Elizabeth. (Another echo: Martha gets more answers and support from Clark.)

Deep breath, Oleg, deep breath. There aren't going to be many happy family meetings in this family...

'You believe her?'

She might know how to make it, but probably not how to pronounce it :)

Deliberate 'you know how to kill a party' cut to the funeral. (Is that what a Soviet graveyard looked like?) Followed by one to Reagan talking about service.

Philip looks distinctly serious watching compared with Elizabeth's levity.

A new friend. Wonder if he's genuine.

Love the 'Do people get hurt? Probably..' '.. but not by us' comments.

Ha, even they don't know!

No, everything is not ok and never will be.

Oleg back in the office... The Soviets are doing better at instigating dissatisfaction with their regime than the Reagan / the CIA ever have been. A definite 'they' rather than 'we' from Arkady.

Somewhat panicked watcher, and not without cause - having the FBI knowing where she's seeing Clark would not be good. Pointed edit between Clark exiting the building through the service door and Martha entering the door of 'their' flat.

Good 'when will I see him again' look on her face when he sees the photo of them is missing.

Cringing slightly at Tim's language with Paige.

Echo of 'think or know' with when Philip was being asked about the tail he thought he spotted earlier in the series.

That look makes me wonder if someone is going to be set up as the married man Martha is seeing.

'We will do everything we can to protect her' is not enough for Philip.

Oleg and Stan together again. Stan looks horrified that the evil empire could actually do something like that.

Pause before Martha picks up the phone. 'Tell me Tuesday' says a lot about what she wants.

Matthew's look at seeing how Henry and Stan are is lovely: "You weren't like that with me!!"

Deep breath from Elizabeth before asking about him and Martha.

Philip nods a bit too enthusiastically about being called a good guy.

Ha at 'Under Pressure'. As Elizabeth watches, Philip gets introduced to someone they already know but can't say; Martha takes another pill; Elizabeth uses sex... as the two FBI agents fail to be outside any Kama Sutra happenings as Martha's alone. Or see the game they're listening to. Martha alone again as Philip and Elizabeth energetically bonk.

Nice episode, but the various pointed edits like P&E beginning to kiss as the 'why can't we give love one more chance' line happens feel a bit too planned.

Elizabeth's possible thoughts/sex scene

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know. For me, Elizabeth's quite a complex person - you can put a single label on her thoughts and emotions. She's gotten a lot more sensitive towards Philip and feels for him, while remaining focused on her kids and the mission.

Some might feel like her initiating sex was purely out of jealousy, but I felt like she really needed it too. And I also noticed that the Jennings treat sex as an escape or release from all the stress they have - see Martial Eagle (?) (initiated by Philip).

Elizabeth isn't merely worried about her husband possibly developing feelings for his fake wife, but also the consequences that those feelings might bring. Protecting Martha is also a risk; it might lead them straight to the FBI, either via entrapment or Martha cracking under pressure. Of course Elizabeth cannot just take Martha out as that would destroy her relationship with Philip. Her "jealousy" is mixed with concern for her family's safety and empathy for her fragile husband.

I kinda like how she remains the more hardline between the two. Philip wants to run for survival, Elizabeth wants to stay and fight. She's also the one willing to die if push comes to shove.

Re: Elizabeth's possible thoughts/sex scene

[sistermagpie]

Yeah, I agree--I think that whatever her jealousy about Martha she is preparing for how terrible Philip is going to feel if and when she dies. I think the scene you're thinking of is the one in Yousef and that one was also initiated by Elizabeth in much the same way as this one. Even the same blocking with Philip sitting down, Elizabeth standing next to him, touching his face.

Though it seems to me it's actually Elizabeth who wants to risk FBI entrapment at this point. She's with Gabriel in suggesting they should just let things lie while Philip wants her out. Which ironically isn't just about Philip protecting Martha but protecting them as well. He thinks she's blown and the first move she makes they'll nab her. That's a big part of what he doesn't want to risk. He doesn't trust her under that much pressure and he has good reason not to--she's already taking Valium for panic attacks.

So yeah, she's staying and fighting and he wants to run. In a way I wouldn't even be surprised if Philip more than Elizabeth was thinking how convenient it would be if she was dead. I mean, I think he wants to protect her as herself, but if she's blown he doesn't want her getting them caught.

[selenak]

I can't help but feel that Martha is a dead woman walking now. Yes, Aderholt and Stan have nothing on her, but a) the Centre doesn't know that, and b) how long before the KGB decides that the fact she now has confirmed FBI surveillance on her is enough to cut their losses in a finite fashion? Practically the only reason why I have also hope she survives is that Nina has just died, and it would be unlikely to kill off both of the main supporting female characters in one season. Otoh I do think that one way or the other, Martha is going to get written out this season, but if she's lucky, she'll get what Gregory didn't want, a new life in Russia. (Not that Martha would want it, either, and certainly not if it comes with finding out Clark has no intention of going with her, but it's better than dying or spending the rest of her life in prison, surely.)

Then again: Chekov's gun. She WILL use it somehow.

Meanwhile, Oleg has three scenes with three different men about Nina's death. The one with his father is bitter (btw: knew he'd be partially blaming Dad, despite his father not being responsible - it's irrational, but that's what emotions are) and quickly gets ugly when Oleg pulls the "why didn't you save my brother from Afghanistan?" card. The one with Arkady starts better, because Arkady actually knew Nina and felt something for her, and is visibly shaken by the news, but Arkady also goes the "it must have been her fault, she must have squandered her chance" route which isn't what Oleg wants to hear. And then there's Stan, who ends up being the one who gives him the reaction Oleg has been looking for by being simply stunned and shattered, without trying to blame her death on Nina. Mind you: not that I expect this to keep Stan from playing the "so... will you work for the FBI now? I do have proof that you leaked intel to me before!" card soon. But because the scene with Arkady ended with Oleg slipping back into distant mode, I still wonder whether or not Nina's death will make him actually want to become a double, at least for a while.

The burial of Oleg's brother in Russia: that was a Zinc coffin, unless I was projecting what I wanted to see. Thank you, Svetlana Alexejevich, for teaching me about the significance re: soldiers who died in Afghanistan.

Chez Jennings, we have to different examples of working people and having to make up with them. Paige is told she needs to play nice with Pastor Tim and does so by telling Pastor Tim she was told be nice to him. This makes Pastor Tim feel like her confidant again, so I can't decide whether it was bratty or inspired. Of course, Tim and Alice have also gotten a visit from Philip and Elizabeth before, now in full Working Mode. I must admit, when they introduced their supposedly Jesuit priest from El Salvador I laughed, in an approving way. That was inspired. Not sure whether Pastor Tim bought it completely, but I think he's at least halfway considering that it's true, not least because our clever spies do use the tried and true "as much truth as possible to sweeten the lie" tactic by guilt tripping Tim re: the Reagan era US support for the death squads in El Salvador.

Of course, Paige is not the only one being told they need to make up with someone. So is Philip, not for the first time, by Elizabeth re: Stan, and by the end of the episode, he does it. Now leaving the spy factor aside, which had nothing to do with their fallout, Stan was in the wrong there, so it would have been his turn to apologize, and I suspect Philip wanted him to, but as with Pastor Tim: personal feelings have to come second to professional needs. And professionally, they need the FBI man next door in a pro Philip Jennings mode. So Philip, professional that he is, comes up with an apology designed to appeal to Stan's sense of masculine superiority, and it works. In return, Stan gives him Stan speak for "you are MY only friend and the thought of YOU with Sandra drove me mad with jealousy", which cracked me up. Though I still want Stan to humble himself before Philip at some point.

Minor points: Elizabeth visiting Younglee again, continuing to have fun. She's working there, too, but it's obvious she really likes the woman (and her reaction to Henry's "you have friends?!?" was great), so I'm expecting a tragic denouement once Elizabeth's true mission kicks in. That kind of thing never goes well for her assets.

Hans was a bit nervous but also eager to please with Philip. That a boy, Hans.

[sistermagpie]

I totally thought of you and that Zinc coffin--you should know that. :-)

Sistermagpie's thoughts on first watch Clark's Place

[sistermagpie]

Another crazy complex episode. A lot of people see Oleg just hurtling toward defection here but I think he's more complicated than that. Whatever he's working out regarding Nina I don't think it's just that if his country didn't let Nina live they really are the evil empire. There were so many conflicting ideas he was facing here and I feel like he was more isolated than anything. I don't think he felt totally bonded with Stan either. I love the Burov family. Also the Arkady scene was great--I think he is genuinely upset over Nina letting him down and Arkady is seeing a bit of his father in him in that moment.

Also I loved his father telling him that if what he wanted was his father pulling strings he should go back to the US and all its perks. I'm beginning to think that's a really good euphemism the show uses. Characters who question how the USSR operates immediately get accused of just wanting stuff when that's not the issue, even if they like the stuff. Henry is the character who seems the most about stuff for stuff's sake if anyone is.

Loved the parallel Paige and Philip "make up with him" scenes. Both had avoided this, I think maybe because both don't like being fake with relationships they have real feelings about. But the difference was cool. Paige knew she couldn't totally lie to Pastor Tim, so she used the truth, telling him she was being ordered to forgive him, and that her parents say this is because he's a good guy when what they're actually saying is she needs to forgive him so he won't rat them out and that she should use his caring about her to do that. But she still wanted to keep her position as the person who vents, complaining that adults tell her what to do and feel but they can do whatever they want (yeah right, Paige. Your parents totally do whatever they want.)

So she basically went back to where she was before, with Pastor Tim, iirc, still asking her what her parents do. Elizabeth was smart to shut the info tap off on Paige as long as she wants to have it both ways. If she wants the intimacy she has to accept the responsibility.

Meanwhile Philip handled Stan so beautifully. When he thought Philip had betrayed him Stan bullied him, throwing him against a wall. Sandra agreed this was Stan always wanting to be the tough guy. Philip played that to the hilt (much as he encouraged Paige to play the "you want to be seen as caring about me, right?" to Pastor Tim). He went in with his tail between his legs, looked uncomfortable, apologized abjectly, didn't bring up Stan's reaction. Everything was his fault. And why? Because he knew he was doing wrong talking to Stan's woman without telling Stan, but he was just too scared of tough guy Stan to tell him. He's a wimp. When Stan says asshole he corrects him to say the word again--no, a wimp. Wimp wimp wimp.

That's Philip for you. Poor, milquetoast Philip is too much of a good guy (wimp?) to even really have an affair with Sandra--it's just Sandra Stan doesn't trust. Now that Philip is back in his little dog position Alpha Stan is comfortable enough to get vulnerable again as he's always been with Philip in the past.

This made me think again about that review I read where the person felt Stan had been rewarded for his selfishness in the past and it had now made him all the more selfish and assured that he was the big hero. I don't see Stan as negatively as the reviewer did, but I really am seeing this pattern with him. In this ep lots of other people had bigger concerns while Stan (and Henry) were very focused on their immediate needs. Even in the car scene where Oleg seems to think about Nina as her own person (not knowing what she did or didn't do to judge her crimes) and having it make him think about the larger issues, Stan says he'd been warned about losing assets but...he really liked this one, basically. He was still seeing Nina in terms of what she meant to him and it seems he hasn't allowed himself to wonder if she was ever working him.

Meanwhile he also accepts Philip's full apology and while he does give something in return by explaining himself it's still in reward for Philip saying he was completely wrong. (And why doesn't Stan have many friends, exactly?) Stan then wants to know what Sandra said about him and Philip twists things to make it seem like Sandra wanted to talk all about how she was too hard on Stan (in reality Philip said that and Sandra agreed--mostly she and Philip talked about themselves and actually listened to each other). But Stan still throws shade on Sandra, saying she's the one he doesn't trust in the Philip/Sandra pairing, like Philip shouldn't trust her either. Sandra was just using you, ya wimp.

Matthew's back in Stan's life thanks to Philip and Sandra, but even there Stan's a bit clueless. Danny Flaherty did, imo, a *really* good job with those opening Matthew scenes where he comes in and finds Henry throwing his weight around as the new kid in the house. Stan's totally oblivious, it seems, not thinking of things from Matthew's pov and enjoying Henry's attention before leaving for the night. (Philip and Matthew are kind of the discarded father/son--I want to watch it again for Philip asking "How are you, Matthew?" because it seemed like the most interest in actual Matthew anyone showed in the scene.)

Henry and Elizabeth's parallel lines about friends was cool too. Elizabeth's wary of Henry's friendship with Stan, still doesn't understand Henry any more than she does Philip at times. Henry just snarks at Elizabeth outright for saying she even has friends.

Oh, also I really loved the trivial pursuit stuff with how Stan was just a "king" at it for knowing things like Howdy Doody's brother, something that would be standard knowledge for a guy his age. Even the line about Mickey Mouse was great. It made me really aware in that moment that Stan grew up watching Lassie and Howdy Doody on TV while Philip's knowledge of that stuff would be studied. His Lassie was totally believable for an American. But Mickey Mouse? Howdy Doody? That was some awesome subtle work there. Also Matthew's answer that yes, he kinda does think of Stan as always being an FBI agent could have some hidden meaning.

Basically it really does seem like Stan's feeling like the big damn hero at the moment when he's actually being one of the least heroic. He wants to get Martha for the get and is mostly dealing with other people by accepting what they're giving him and not thinking of things from any pov but his own.

Interested to see where the Pastor Tim stuff is going, if he gets sucked in. Also note that as usual Mrs. Tim sits next to him like a Golden Retriever while Elizabeth and Philip are equals. There's just been such a consistent, subtle pattern here of the Tims having this very traditional gender role marriage. Alice rarely opens her mouth except to blandly support Tim's own feelings when we see her, but Paige calls her a blabbermouth when she gets around *women.*

Elizabeth's really feeling back in control now, it seems. She's bowling six strikes in a row and Philip still looks wild-eyed, unshaven and exhausted. I think she's currently in the honeymoon phase of friendship for one thing. She's not thinking how the Young Hee situation might end...

When Elizabeth was talking about Henry and Stan I noted that Philip was gazing stonily out the window drinking some water. It was exactly what he did in Martial Eagle when Henry was trying to show him a magic trick and he said "Not now, Henry" with that thousand mile stare. That was kind of the moment when the Philip who was always Henry's buddy died, so it seemed perfect to see it repeated when Elizabeth was again talking about Henry.

I do also think even more now that Henry likes Stan's house for the feeling of being a grown man there, hanging out with Stan and also Matthew as if they're peers.

Parallel between Paige & Philip's "make up with him" scenes

[jae]

Loved the parallel Paige and Philip "make up with him" scenes. Both had avoided this, I think maybe because both don't like being fake with relationships they have real feelings about.

LOVE this! I hadn't noticed the parallel, but you're totally right that that was deliberate. And the differences are definitely cool and say a lot about the differences between Paige and Philip.

-J

Treon's thoughts

[treonb]

* Nice of Stan to admit he knew Martha had a gun, and he didn't find anything suspicious in her apartment. Now he's going more on a feeling than anything else (though unlike Philip, he's right)

* I had a feeling Elizabeth's story was targeting YoungHee somehow, that she knew YoungHee would feel an emotional connection to it. Besides which, Elizabeth has people who could play the 'brother and 'father' roles.

* I wonder how they got Father Rivas. The KGB has an El-Salvadoran on call for such cases? Due to the circumstances they had to meet him without a disguise, so he must really be trusted.

* Why was Henry over at Stan's place? Matthew comes home after months that his father hadn't seen him. He doesn't want the little pipsqueak around deciding what pizza to get.

* Today parents would be so much more suspicious if their kid was hanging around an older neighbor's house all the time.

* Matthew has the "Rocky Horror Picture Show" on video because Stan stole a bootleg copy for him. And that's not a movie for a kid Henry's age, but Philip doesn't even ask, and Stan doesn't seem to care.

* The KGB's "we'll do everything" for Martha sounds more like "we'll try to make it painless when we kill her". They can't let her fall into the hands of the FBI. Maybe she'll overdose and save everybody the trouble.

* Philip is really coming down on poor Hans with his "you think or you know?". He's the one who stopped a meet because of a feeling. And Hans really saw something.

* I was sure at the end that P&E recognized the car from Hans' description. But now I rewatched it and it's not the same car at all. Pity.

Re: Treon's thoughts

[sistermagpie]

Why was Henry over at Stan's place? Matthew comes home after months that his father hadn't seen him. He doesn't want the little pipsqueak around deciding what pizza to get.

It's funny because people always assume Henry's in an empty house and wandering over to Stan's in search of human companionship when he's just as likely to be asking to stay over there while his family is at home. I think in this case he may have been looking forward to Matthew coming over. He was really spreading himself around there as if he was Matthew's uncle or something.

Matthew has the "Rocky Horror Picture Show" on video because Stan stole a bootleg copy for him. And that's not a movie for a kid Henry's age, but Philip doesn't even ask, and Stan doesn't seem to care.

And poor Matthew. That movie's not to be watched at home alone anyway. Now he's supposed to watch it with a 12 year old?

Philip is really coming down on poor Hans with his "you think or you know?". He's the one who stopped a meet because of a feeling. And Hans really saw something.

Loved that call back. Though I don't think he was being that hard on him--I mean, I think he apologized or made clear he wasn't criticizing him. He was just really needing the information. I thought Hans actually handled himself well by trying to be honest about it: he thought he recognized the car but couldn't honestly say he had for sure. It was one of the few exchanges where complete honesty was totally helpful!

I thought Elizabeth was recognizing the car too. Oh well!

soupytwist's thoughts

[soupytwist]

Yep, Martha is Not Happy. and...taking pills. Philip apologises pretty well but I don't think it's gonna do it at all. I second the thought above they're not gonna have Tuesday.

...did Philip literally have one picture of Clark and Martha? Like, one personal thing FULL STOP? Probably. I bet Martha has something else somewhere, though. Eep. And damn, the near-bookending of the episode with Martha drinking and taking valium really hit it home how very not OK she is. It also strikes me as a potentially good way to get rid of her, should the KGB decide that's what they're gonna do now. I hope not though. I don't want two of the three main lady characters dead!

Philip is GIVING MARTHA IMPORTANT SPY INFO, that's not gonna end well. The number to call isn't much in and of itself, but as something she could potentially give to the FBI if stuff goes terribly wrong, which is already has? I'm worried.

Oh poor Oleg. I don't think he had a lot of faith in the USSR or anything, but what there was of it just got destroyed. It's also true we're starting to see the fall of the USSR - these are exactly the cracks that will grow and widen and eventually the whole thing will collapse. People like Oleg are tiny tiny drips that nobody thinks will break the whole dam.

("I only know what my father told me" - it's all smoke and mirrors. THe whole thing could be fake. And Oleg knows that, even if Arkady is also kinda right that Nina ultimately did make choices which knowingly got her in more trouble.)

Also, Oleg at the funeral is SO SAD. Well done Coasta Ronin. I'm glad Stan and Oleg kind of have a Nina-understanding, even if it is a seriously weird thing to be kind of bonding over.

The Jennings are comparing notes and realising they are in big trouble on multiple fronts. It's nice to see them working together even if it is really tough. They....found a (fake! I lolled at "...I dunno") priest. Okay. And they're not actually lying by saying they try to do good things. Although they really are blatantly lying with the 'no one hurt by us' bit.

Paige knows the "you must make up with him" stuff is manipulative, even if she doesn't have the vocabulary and experience to argue back. Her convo with Pastor Tim worked because she's so honest. I think she's decided not to really TRUST either side in this issue, but her parents are her parents and she loves them and it'd be weird if that WASN'T a huge factor in what she actually goes with. I was totally right she nearly told Henry though!

"A gun... which I knew." I thought of the commenters here commenting that Stan already knew about the gun!

We are getting a LOT of the Avon Calling stuff, this has got to be going somewhere specific and I have no idea where. I'm probably missing something really obvious, but this plot seems so disconnected? Where's it all gonna tie in? Anyone have thoughts?

Philip's "what if you're wrong" is so sad. It's not like nobody else feels the responsibility of their positions, but Philip makes ME feel like it none of the others do. Poor guy.

Matthew's long hair makes me lol. Aw. So much awkward teenage boy. And I kind of like Stan playing team dad a bit, although yo, some of those remarks were really not called for, Stan.

Aderholt now knows what Philip looks like! Also, I just tried to imagine what might happen if MArtha to see Stan and bumped into Philip-as-Philip AS STAN'S NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOUR. Eep.

And finally, I have no real opinion on the sex, except that it seemed to me like they were BOTH feeling the pressure (even if Philip is probably dealing with it worse) and having sex is one way to feel a bit better. It also is a handy bonding activity, and the Jennings' unified commitment to their family is definitely a theme.

Telling Martha the number

[lovingboth]

On the other hand, she was made to memorise it and if she ever talks, the phone number is the least of the illegals programme's problems.

Paige and the Reagan speech

[jae]

It's completely beside the point in terms of what was going on in the scene, but I would LOVE to know more about what Paige was thinking as she was sitting on the couch watching that Reagan speech with her dad. And how she reacted to her mom laughing at him, too. There are probably all these moments from their past that she's running over in her mind now, thinking about the times she should have recognized something was up. And she'd be wondering if she's supposed to feel differently about Reagan now, maybe doubting what she's been told about him. There's a lot that could be mined there for the right fanfiction writer. :)

-J

Re: Paige and the Reagan speech

[sistermagpie]

But then, Paige probably doesn't much like Reagan anyway given Pastor Tim's politics. He's probably not openly disdainful of him, but he wouldn't see him as too great I wouldn't think.

It reminded me of Elizabeth pointing out that Paige's pro-America teacher had a hairlip. Paige was annoyed by that too. I don't think it's even just about the American angle but the mean-spiritedness of some of Elizabeth's comments.

"You two still care about people"

[jae]

There's a line in Philip and Elizabeth's scene with Gabriel where he says "You two still care about people. It's what makes you such good officers." There are all sorts of layers to that.

First, it made me think of the first season, where Claudia was clearly thinking that caring was NOT the way to be a good officer, and was both mistrustful of Philip because he cared too much, and scornful of Elizabeth when she started to care. This really underscores the difference between Gabriel and Claudia as handlers, as several things have this season, including the conversation he had with her one-on-one.

Second, the "still" is interesting. It suggests that there's an expected trajectory (for illegals? for spies in general?) in which caring lessens over time. And maybe people like William are just seen as being further along on that trajectory (he's been in the US even longer than Philip and Elizabeth).

-J

Re: "You two still care about people"

[sistermagpie]

Or also a nice way to acknowledge all they've been through, like he could understand them being burnt out. Also interesting that he chose that tack, which is probably leaning a bit more Philip-ish, than saying they were still patriotic, which he seems to have used with Elizabeth in the past. I think he sees now this is a better way to go with both of them, particularly since he doesn't want to make caring about people (like their kids) in congruent with being a spy.

Martha's story

[treonb]

Turns out Martha's story was actually Philip's story. No wonder Stan and Aderholt were suspicious it's too good a cover story.

I thought she pulled it off amazingly well, not like she was going to fall apart any second.

Re: Martha's story

[quantumreality]

I liked that, as I know people were debating last week if Martha whipped up that story on the fly or not.

KGB's patience with Wiliam

[treonb]

Gabriel's message to William that in 25 years he's accomplished virtually nothing made me think again about what I wrote last ep, that I don't understand why they still keep him around.

But I guess the KGB have a LOT of patience, and even though they didn't see immediate dividends, it paid off in the long run. Or will pay off, if they can manage to get him to do what they want him to do, which he really doesn't want to do.

At this point, William is safe, because the KGB really need him.

Re: KGB's patience with Wiliam

[jae]

I think that was intended to say something about the particular area of work that William is in, rather than William's competence.

What's kind of funny about that line, though, is that it's a charge that's leveled at real-life illegals all the time by people in the espionage world who think this peculiarly Soviet/Russian way of spying isn't worth all the trouble. Lots of people think that was the norm for all illegals--they underwent ridiculously rigorous training, went to other countries and posed as locals or other nationals, only to never really deliver on anything that was of use to the Soviets.

-J

[saraqael]

First Philip drops the Clark facade in front of Martha, and now he gives her the secret number to the KGB call center so that Martha can call him any time 24/7. What's next, Philip? Going to bring her home and move her into a spare bedroom at Casa Jennings?

Seriously, Philip giving her that number can be viewed as a simple ploy to help keep her calm when he's not around. It can also be viewed as a gesture of genuine caring and affection for this woman who is suffering so much because of him. I think it's a bit of both. Philip started out merely feigning affection for Martha, but I believe that over time he's come to genuinely care for her and to actually love her a bit, though in the way that one might love a pet, not in a romantic, 'love as equals' sort of relationship. Any affection he has for her is only going to hurt him. Any guilt he feels over how profoundly he's destroyed her is only going to cloud his judgment. Martha is just a tool. A disposable tool. Right now, she's looking pretty doomed. She's coming apart, her colleagues are closing in on her, and her usefulness to the KGB is over. I think it's ironic that Philip is the one flagging this, while Gabriel and Elizabeth are willing to continue stringing Martha along at the Bureau, even to the point of suggesting that she sneak in a camera! I wonder if they aren't taking Philip's concerns as seriously as they ought to because they assume he's just thinking emotionally?

Interesting that this is the second time that we've seen Philip break protocol on behalf of his wife (albeit, this time it's his fake wife). First he defied the rules and arranged for Elizabeth to see her mother, and now he's broken protocol again and arranged for Martha to call him on a KGB call number.

I'm dithering over whether or not Paige was intentionally working Pastor Tim when she went to talk to him. She seemed annoyed and disappointed when Philip and Elizabeth instructed her to go over there and make nice with the pastor. She did as she was told, but I don't think she was playing junior spy. I think that she went over on her own behalf. She strikes me that she's walking a middle path right now. She loves her parents but doesn't entirely trust them. She respects Pastor Tim but doesn't entirely trust him, either.

I'm so fascinated to see what Oleg is going to do. It would be easy for the writers to have him defect, but I hope that isn't what happens. He is clearly angry at the current situation in Russia, but that doesn't automatically mean that he'd defect. I'm wondering if he will start looking at ways to change the system from within. Oleg is an intelligent, kind, and ambitious man. He's well connected. After the Gorbachev era, I could see Oleg seriously becoming a reasoned force for reform in Russia. The show's not there yet in terms of its timeline though.

Finally, thoughts on the final sex scene. I didn't interpret that scene as Elizabeth being jealous of Philip's obvious feelings towards Martha. She was observing him closely in the couple of scenes leading up to the sex scene. She could see how distressed he was. She's also feeling seriously stressed, she just hides it better than he does. We got a glimpse of her suppressed panic when Paige woke her. This is all just a couple of days after the glanders incident, and Gabriel's 'living in a burning house' comment. I interpreted the scene as an affirmation of her love for him, and their joint commitment to be there for each other.

[quantumreality]

My thinking re: Oleg is that he and his dad will take the first steps to becoming Russian oligarchs when the system finally implodes at the end of 1991.

I would be totally unsurprised to hear that Burov Sr. has stashed away a ton of hard currency somewhere. As Minister for Transportation he might easily be taking bribes for projects XYZ to get bumped up in the Five-Year Plan over projects ABC, and he might ask for hard currency instead of rubles in order to do it.

Burov Jr. is in the USA and quite obviously knows how things work there, so getting set up to take over some big chunk of the transport sector in Russia which can transship to the USA (say rail/ship) would be a comparative piece of cake.

Poor Oleg, I'm Really Mad at Stan, and a request

[apolla_savre]

I...really, really need someone to just hold Oleg. (And yes, I volunteer.) His face contorted and I honestly thought he was going to cry and I reached out for the screen.

I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU, STAN. Did you do ANY work? Or is this your stupid "job" of following Martha? Essentially being you stalk someone and listen to a game with your "pal" ON THE NIGHT YOU SON IS HOME.

Like, dude, you did not have to do that. And wow, way to make Matthew feel like shit. Not only do you ditch him, but when he gets home THERE IS ANOTHER CHILD PALING AROUND WITH HIS FATHER.

I have been in Matthew's place - seeing someone else have a relationship with your father that's better than the one you have, and let me tell you, Stan just KILLED any real attempt at fixing that relationship.

Also, omg, Tatiana is so tiny!!! (Compared to Oleg. At least, I think that was Tatiana who hugged him.)

I think Martha's going to kill herself. I hope they opt for the pills and just leave us all with the "wow, we had the whole thing with the gun and they didn't go for it". I mean, I could go into the sociology of suicide methods for men vs women, but I won't. I just kind of want that "we were all expecting it and it didn't happen" moment.

Re: Poor Oleg, I'm Really Mad at Stan, and a request

[quantumreality]

I caught a kind of sibling-rivalryish vibe between Henry and Matthew, actually!

William is an illegal??

[cadma]

Is that what Gabriel meant when he said William was a patriot and would go home a hero? Has it been mentioned before and I missed it? I thought illegals couldn't get through the background checks to get William's level of security clearance.

Re: William is an illegal??

[jae]

Yes, William is an illegal. (My guess is that this is actually a large part of why he doesn't have that security clearance.)

-J

Philip's reactions to Martha's death

[lovingboth]

We've had everyone realise that Tim & Mrs Tim can't die now that Paige has told Philip and Elizabeth that she talked to him, no matter how accidental it looks.

What would happen to Philip if Martha was found dead after an overdose? Would he think it was the KGB killing her? Or would he think that the pressure got to her or it was an accident?

If asked to do it, would he do the overdose?

About the only way I can think that wouldn't get him thinking 'did my side murder her?' is if she died in a shoot-out while the FBI tried to arrest her.

Re: Philip's reactions to Martha's death

[sistermagpie]

I think given what he knows of Martha he could absolutely believe she killed herself--which would put the blame on him. If it was the KGB, same difference, really. He might feel worse about it if it was a suicide because he'd know she must have been in a lot of pain.

Would he do the overdosing? I think he actually would, but Elizabeth would probably realize that was a bad idea and not allow it. Gabriel might see that too.

As for why I think Philip would do it, I can see him thinking he ought to be the one because it's really his fault regardless. He might even try to make it as nice as possible--lovely romantic last evening together and then poisoning her. It would be like their relationship in a nutshell.

Stan and Nina

[sistermagpie]

I read an interesting take somewhere that I hadn't thought about. I had just been thinking about how in that scene with Henry and Matthew the show didn't have Stan obviously brooding over Nina or withdrawn. And just as I'd thought that someone else said they thought Stan was particularly light-hearted in that scene and it was partly *because* of the news he heard about Nina.

Because if Nina is dead, it's over. He no longer has to feel like he should be doing something for her. That somewhat shameful tie to Russia, the thing that made him almost betray his country (and basically commit treason with Oleg) is gone. He's working Oleg now, trying to turn him, and while they can bond over loving Nina Stan can basically put it behind him and move forward having gotten away with all his transgressions.

He can just focus on Martha, who is in fact in a similar situation, feeling like she's protecting Clark etc.

Re: Stan and Nina

[soupytwist]

I noticed he seemed particularly... I wouldn't necessariyl say lighthearted exactly, but like, jocular? And that's such a fascinating explanation for why. It makes total sense too. Damn.

[shapinglight]

Another terrific episode - very upsetting in a much quieter way than the previous one. I was very moved by Oleg's father's speech and by the scene at the funeral. Really not sure what Oleg has decided to do, but to me, it looks like Nina's death (and his parents' pain, even if he is also angry with his father) has been the final straw.