Episode discussion post: "Baggage"

[jae]

Aired:
4 February 2015 in the U.S. and Canada

This is a discussion post for episode 302 of The Americans, intended for viewers who are watching the show on the U.S./Canadian schedule. (Feel free to dive in to the discussion even if you're coming in late--and you should also feel free to start a new thread if it seems too daunting to read through what's already been posted first. If you're reading this at a point where you've already seen subsequent episodes, though, please take care to keep comments spoiler-free of anything that comes after season three, episode two.)

Original promo trailer

"The Americans 3x02 Promo "Baggage" / This Season on The Americans" (Watch on YouTube)

Episode recaps

From Hitfix
From The AV Club
From The Atlantic
From the LA Times
From Slant Magazine
From IGN
From TV.com
From Sound on Sight
From Geeks of Doom
From TVEquals
From examiner.com
From TV Ate My Wardrobe
From the International Business Times
From Uproxx
From MovieNewsGuide
From MStarz
From Starpulse
From Romance at Random
From SpoilerTV

Comments

General episode review

[theplatonicnonyeah]

First I just wanted to say that I got the impression from a previous promo that we were going to see some other characters and scenes that didn't end up in this episode. But I may have been mistaken, so I will ignore that.

I think for me, Noah Emmerich made the deepest impression this episode and he literally brought me to tears with that phone call from the phone booth after his interception with Oleg. I also liked that Sandra still would not go back to him, which otherwise would have been the solution an ordinary US show. I ask myself whether he lied to Oleg about loving Nina just to try to get out of the situation. What do you think? Does he really love Sandra or is that just out of old habit? Of course, it is possible he loves them both.

Paige's comments about her parents' love life are subtle, but hit a nerve with Elizabeth. In season 1 she wouldn't have been so quick to defend Philip...

Now I know that Gillian Alexy is a trained ballet dancer, but she is not that bendy! Joking aside, that scene was rather gruesome. I wonder if they completely disposed of her body or if it will appear in a future episode. Did they deliberately leave her rings on for easier identification?

The introduction of the Zenaida character was interesting in all its somewhat overbearing symbolism. The chocolate, to show how deprived Russians were of luxurious items like that. Her apparent awe of finally being free, but Stan's comment that it most definitely wasn't over just because of that. Gaad's off-hand comment about "what's-her-name" and to keep her alive can only mean that she will be killed.

I'm intrigued by the tooth issue. That was one of the first things they said to look for after the attack on Gaad and his companion agent. Since it's not going away I'm guessing it will be a thing that Stan may pick up on eventually.

I did think it was a little odd for Philip to offer Elizabeth the option of going home to see her mother. Or to get her mother to the US? It was like a parallel to the Zenaida story. How many people were actually willing to travel back to the USSR, regardless of how patriotic they were? After all, the West offered a lot more choices and luxuries.

Nina in prison was grim. The introduction of "Belgian Evie" was nothing but suspicious. Well, ok, maybe also a little sad, if it was true. But I'm thinking that Nina is skilled enough to know not to trust anyone. Interestingly, she did trust Oleg's father. And I wonder why he came to see her after all...

So, the end, what to make of it? That exaggerated slow-motion sitting up in the chair that Matthew Rhys did was a little bit of over-acting soap opera-ish, I thought. I get that he now finally (?) understands how deeply Elizabeth believes turning Paige into a KGB agent is potentially a good thing. Presumably, the newspaper reading scene was to show that Elizabeth is grooming her into being interested about politics. At the same time, when Elizabeth went to see Gabriel again, I got the feeling she was saying to him it might not be so easy with the trust issue, since Paige is a teenager in the US, ie much freer in her thinking that E had ever been. And Paige isn't necessarily going to think of the USSR as her country, the way Elizabeth did when she was called.

Re: General episode review

[alley_skywalker]

Yea, I don't know why they chose chocolate of all things. Russian chocolate candy is awesome, always has been, even during Soviet times. (When I was a kid, back in the 90s when Western products were still rare, one of the coolest food-related things was McDonald's hamburgers.)

Re: Stan's scenes

[lisa_lnc]

I think for me, Noah Emmerich made the deepest impression this episode and he literally brought me to tears with that phone call from the phone booth after his interception with Oleg.

I totally agree, the writing and acting were spot-on!! The weird, awkward-sounding, rambling message to his son--even down to, "Hi Sandra, also, and Arthur, I guess"--was so apropos. The gawky message showed just how out-of-touch Stan was with communicating and opening himself up to his family. Plus, almost getting shot in the back probably factored into his disjointed phone message, too! Kudos to the J's and Noah Emmerich!

At first, my cynical side thought Stan's breakdown in front of Sandra was just a ploy to get her back--similar to what he did by attending the EST meetings. However, I can't imagine any man wanting to go in the middle of the night to his estranged wife's boyfriend's house. Most men I know try everything to avoid such awkward encounters, save for visiting kids or beating up the new boyfriend! I think Stan genuinely needed Sandra that night. Watching Stan break down was like watching a gentle giant (both figuratively and literally, as Noah Emmerich is definitely over 6 ft tall!). Here's a man who has bottled up every emotion for years--always acting like the "big, tough-guy-hero"--and finally, he deflates and sobs. Additionally, it's interesting to compare how Stan and Philip reacted to releasing bottled-up emotions: Philip exploded in anger at Paige, while Stan broke down crying.

Re: General episode review

[sistermagpie]

The introduction of the Zenaida character was interesting in all its somewhat overbearing symbolism. The chocolate, to show how deprived Russians were of luxurious items like that.

I don't know whether it was supposed to be a luxury item, exactly, but the fact that it was a Milky Way, rather than just straight chocolate, makes it easy for me to believe that she really loved it. It's a combination of tastes she's never had before. I've eaten food in other countries that isn't that interesting to the locals that knocks me out not because I've been deprived of anything of comparable luxury at home but just because it's different. Like the first time I went to England they didn't have Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. Not a luxury, no shortage of great chocolate, but that doesn't make Reese's any less fantastic! :-)

I did think it was a little odd for Philip to offer Elizabeth the option of going home to see her mother. Or to get her mother to the US? It was like a parallel to the Zenaida story. How many people were actually willing to travel back to the USSR, regardless of how patriotic they were? After all, the West offered a lot more choices and luxuries.

Bringing her to the US wasn't on the table, I don't think. What would they do with a random Russian woman dumped into a foreign country for the last months of her life? Philip's idea was that she should get to go back and visit her--which wasn't unreasonable at all. I thought the fact that Elizabeth immediately said no was a sign for just how she's thinking about family these days. She's all about making herself hard again so she's not going to demand anything sissy like actually spending quality time with the woman she loves rather than doing her duty to her country for her.

I get that he now finally (?) understands how deeply Elizabeth believes turning Paige into a KGB agent is potentially a good thing.

I didn't get that from that scene (not that there's any one interpretation since the scene's by definition ambigious!). She had just handed him a big ole' matzoh ball of psychological stuff about the issue and I didn't think he could have just one reaction to it. I think he already knew how important it was to her but he's now getting some hints about how twisted (from his pov) it might be.

Also totally agree on Stan. I love how even phone messages to his family baffle him and are stilted and formal. I don't know if he knows who he loves right now, but he's coming to realize that he has feelings for Sandra that are really deep. I thought he was telling the truth when he said she was the person he wanted to tell. Which is fascinating for Stan who never tells her anything. He's finally wanting to talk.

[selenak]

That silent sequence where Philip and Elizabeth dispose of Annalise's body and have to break her bones in order to fit her into the suitcase was upsetting even to yours truly, who is a Dexter and Breaking Bad veteran when it comes to body disposal. And note Elizabeth , ever the professional, takes a picture of Yousaf the moment he joins the bone breaking and thus touches Annalise's dead body as well. BTW, I appreciated that Philip didn't waste time to say something obvious like "we're blackmailing you now" to Yousaf, or tried to sell him on Scott being "Swedish Intelligence", but got to the point immediately, Yousaf not being stupid.

Continuing the theme of the Russian/Afghan war as a current day events parallel:/foreshadowing Sinaida (spelling?) the defector talking about Soviet leadership and invading a foreign country, telling its people what to do, plus Yousaf bringing up with the CIA group that their money goes to the hardcore religious fundamentalists.

Nina in a Soviet prison: in genre tv, a new sympathetic cell mate ALWAYS is a plant, so I'm not surprised that Nina, who is genre savvy, does not take to the apparant Belgian girl. Otoh the visit from Oleg's father was a surprise. Because having declined to help Nina as related by Oleg in the previous episode, I hadn't imagined he'd bother meeting her, which seems pointless and compromising from his pov... unless he is considering helping her after all. BTW, Nina asking him to tell Oleg she didn't pretend with him still doesn't clear up the question of Nina's feelings, because what would she tell her one possible way out of prison? "I totally pretended with your boy"?

Meanwhile in the US, Oleg is upset enough about Nina to almost shoot Stan. Which is treated genre atypically but all the more character intense because while Stan does the requisite tough "Then shoot me" agent thing, what the episode dwells upon is the aftermath; just how badly shaken he is when the awarenesss he could have died sinks in, how the phonecall presents him with his wife and son now being part of a new family with "Arthur", and how even the visit to Sandra, when he finally does what she begged him to do back in season 1, share with her what's going on with him, underlines that while she's glad he's alive, she's not willling to go back to him because of this.

Paige going back to her old suspicion that one of her parents is having an affair as an explanation for all the oddness in their lives isn't suprising, but her bringing it up to Elizabeth is (result of their new closeness?). And her response once Elizabeth tried to dissuade her: "You're looking out for each other - more than for us". She doesn't say it angrily (which she would have done last season) but matter of factly. It's shocking to Elizabeth, since both she and Phlip see each other as looking out for their children first. Is it true? I'd say in a pinch P & E would choose the kids above each other, when it came to it, and of course their differing views on what's good for the kids are key to the season, but in terms of the every day life Paige is able to observe it's of course true that they cover for each other and share secrets they don't share with their children.

The flashback to Nadesha's childhood with the revelation that Elizabeth's father wasn't a Soviet hero but, according to her mother, a deserter, gives Elizabeth's devotion to the cause yet another layer. When she tells Philip at the end of the episode that her mother "didn't blink" when young Nadeshda told her at age 16 she'd been chosen for a life in the KGB there's an ambiguity there, too; is she telling it to Philip to explain her own reaction re: Paige or because part of her wishes that her mother had blinked? Oleg's father tells Nina parents keep getting dissapointed by their children, which isn't how P & E see their own children, but Elizabeth not wanting to be a dissappointment to her mother (or Mother Russia) certainly was always part of her.

Meanwhile, Philip frustratingly yet in character doesn't take the cue to provide backstory of his own. We really do know more about Oleg's background by now than about his.

[alley_skywalker]

Continuing the theme of the Russian/Afghan war as a current day events parallel:/foreshadowing Sinaida (spelling?) the defector talking about Soviet leadership and invading a foreign country, telling its people what to do, plus Yousaf bringing up with the CIA group that their money goes to the hardcore religious fundamentalists.

Do you mean Ukraine? (Sorry if I'm projecting. The world kinda revolves around Ukraine for Russian families atm lol.)

Philip's mysterious background

[theplatonicnonyeah]

Meanwhile, Philip frustratingly yet in character doesn't take the cue to provide backstory of his own. We really do know more about Oleg's background by now than about his.

THIS SO MUCH!
Honestly, it's almost getting a little silly they way we're never told about Misha/Philip. What is he hiding? And indeed, why does Elizabeth never ask, given how much she has revealed about her own family background to Philip?

[sistermagpie]

It's shocking to Elizabeth, since both she and Phlip see each other as looking out for their children first. Is it true? I'd say in a pinch P & E would choose the kids above each other, when it came to it, and of course their differing views on what's good for the kids are key to the season, but in terms of the every day life Paige is able to observe it's of course true that they cover for each other and share secrets they don't share with their children.

I don't think it's necessarily true or that they believe that. There's a default idea that many people have that you're supposed to immediately be about your children above everything else, which always seems totally not practical to be because the whole point with your kids is to have them for a limited period and then they start their own lives. So to me it seems like the relationship is different, but not necessarily stronger. In a pinch presumably both of them would be more protective of the children because that's their job, but Philip and Elizabeth are such a team I do think they naturally look out for each other more. That's their job.

Really random thoughts right after watching...

[alley_skywalker]

Did Zinaida come the entire way from Russia to the US in a BOX?!? That's like a 10-hour flight. Jesus Christ. *shudders* (Why was she gagged, though?)

I wonder what's up with the Belgium girl. (I don't think you can legally hold aliens...I mean for a while, but only until they get deported? Hah. Just realized I've never thought about this.

Stan breaks my heart. He does that a lot lately. The scene with Oleg was intense.

(Side note: they keep not subbing the tapes. Nothing super important on this one. (Although the tidbit about Gabrielle bringing Elizabeth's mom "good meet" and tea -- I don't remember if she said herbal or Chamomile - was interesting.)

Ooh now we know who Oleg's daddy is.

(side note: strange translation of one of Nina's lines. In English it's subbed as "tell him I wasn't pretending with him" but in Russian she says "tell him that I never betrayed him." That's a pretty big difference in meaning. I think the one they meant was the English version, but I don't understand why it's miss-translated. The word for "pretending" in Russian would fit here just fine.)

Zenaida and foreign citizens

[theplatonicnonyeah]

Did Zinaida come the entire way from Russia to the US in a BOX?!? That's like a 10-hour flight. Jesus Christ. *shudders* (Why was she gagged, though?)
She wasn't gagged. She had a breathing mask on, because in the baggage area of a plane there is no oxygen.

I wonder what's up with the Belgium girl. (I don't think you can legally hold aliens...I mean for a while, but only until they get deported? Hah. Just realized I've never thought about this.
They've definitely held foreign citizens. It was probably fairly easy to have someone just disappear, especially if it was in fact a real Western spy. No Western country would ask about a person like that, because then they would risk exposing both the spy and their own politics.

Nina's lines in Russian

[treonb]

That's really interesting, thanks!

Jae's thoughts on second watch

[jae]

In bullet point form:

• This is the second time we've seen a character on a toilet in this show (and both were in a suboptimal situation)! I feel like this should be a trivia question on a game show at some point: "which two characters on The Americans were seen during the biological process of excretion?"

• I loved the line "Paige, don't worry, your dad is not having an affair." He just has another wife--and it's fine with me, honest. Most of the time, anyway.

• I was shocked when Philip-as-Scott actually came right out and told Yousaf that he was KGB-affiliated. He must have done a quick calculation and figured he had a better chance of getting what he needed out of Yousaf if he told the truth on that front? I'm still not sure exactly where Philip is planning on going with this surprise new agent of his, but something tells me it's going to be an interesting ride.

• As a couple of others noted, the notion of coming to the U.S. in a box is pretty hardcore. I wonder how accurate that is--is that something Joe Weisberg dreamed up, or something that actually happened?

• I was spoiled in advance that the hardest-to-stomach part about the suitcase scene would be the sounds, and let me just say that I'm so glad I was. It helped me stay with the characters more rather than just getting grossed out and distancing myself.

• So exciting to see Katja Herbers--my favourite thing about my second-favourite currently airing show--on my very favourite show! I loved her thicker accent (she actually has almost no trace of a Dutch accent in English in real life) and the Belgian particulars she added. I kind of want to hear her character speak Dutch now, though. :)

• A number of things in this episode suggest that Elizabeth is really struggling with how Philip is reacting to the Paige thing, and really feels that it's driving them apart rather than just a spat they're having. First, the fact that she doesn't tell him about the memory she had of her mother referring to her father as a deserter. Second, the fact that she tells Gabriel that the two of them were different from the last time he saw them, rather than are. And then the fact that in the final scene, she broaches the subject with him while at the office, like it's something she wants to fix but doesn't know how to.

• This isn't about the show directly, but it felt like the very definition of irony when a Canadian Forces ad aired during this episode, which dealt so heavily with the fallout from the Soviet war in Afghanistan....

• The Stan and Oleg scene was so fantastic. Terrific acting all around. And I too got a little "aww!" at Stan's answering maching message--he was just so at a loss what to say, but he had to say something ("and Arthur, I guess"). And later, seeing him crying, with Sandra--it's all really touching. At the same time, though, I have to cheer Sandra on for making him work for it a bit.

• I think we've talked before on this comm about the fact that the real-life illegals actually were sent back to the Soviet Union sometimes, but it was good to get confirmation that this is considered out of the ordinary in this show's version of real-life events. I actually really like that tweak: it's far more poignant if they never see the motherland again until their time in the field is up.

• Any thoughts on why Stan didn't tell the defector that they had in fact personally dealt with another defector who'd gotten killed on U.S. soil? Is that confidential, or was he trying not to scare her?

Re: Jae's thoughts on second watch

[selenak]

Any thoughts on why Stan didn't tell the defector that they had in fact personally dealt with another defector who'd gotten killed on U.S. soil? Is that confidential, or was he trying not to scare her?

I think he must have been trying not to scare her. "Don't worry, you're safe, it's just this other guy we couldn't keep safe" is not reassuring.

re: Elizabeth, I think when she says to Philip the thing with Paige won't go away, she is aware this also applies to Philip's pov. Earlier, she may have hoped he'd change his mind, but by now it's obvious this is really deep set within him, and if there is compromise, it's not going to be Philip agreeing the spy life could in any way be good for Paige.

Another thing about the "deserter" reveal: it also adds to Elizabeth's reaction in the pilot when Philip considers defection. And to her hesitation when Lucia asked her who her father had been - Elizabeth let several moments pass before replying "he was a worker" back then.

Katja Herbers is so not!Helen as the Belgian!

Re: Jae's thoughts on second watch

[quantumreality]

The sounds? eek. So glad I usually watch with the sound turned off and the subtitles on.

Toilet scenes

[lovingboth]

There was the guy who was snatched in S2, of course, but hasn't there been at least one men's urinal scene?

Some thoughts

[alisonx]

- It was good to see Nina again. The prison sequence reminded me a lot of Scandal's "Run" episode. It's interesting we are so prone to guess that a cellmate = plant. I don't really think the Belgian lady is, only because it's not really the type of fake-out trope this show does. Also, the cellmate plant-for-information thing is just in tv shows right? Surely it doesn't happen in real life.

- Stan and Sandra were heartbreaking. I think that was the best acting Noah has done on the show. I appreciated all of it. It's really nice the show subtly weaved it into the S1 discussion of Sandra asking Stan to confide in her and talk to her about what he was going through. Also great that the show has been able to rely on that subtle recognition from its audience. I kinda hope they don't get back together on the show. I can't tell which way it's going to go yet but those scenes were just so good.

- That suitcase scene was disgusting but very bad-ass and memorable. I can handle it when I'm watching it but thinking about it afterwards (aka now) is making me squirm.

- I feel like most of the time, a lot of the geopolitical discussion goes over my head. I really know not a lot about the Afghan war. The press conference scene where she talks about the Soviet Union controlling the fate of another country pretty obvious but there is tons of subtle stuff I know I miss which is a shame. It doesn't impact my enjoyment of the show but the thought does pop up every episode. One day I will get educated and rewatch this show and hopefully add a few extra layers of understanding.

- Gabriel is great. Such a good fit for the show.

- I liked Jae's comment about how poignant it is that illegals left and never returned. It's so sad to think of someone, especially a young person, leaving their homeland that they love so much knowing that they'll never see it again. I like that Philip offers a glimmer of hope trying to comfort E but her face is pure "what on earth are you talking about?!"

- After that final scene I just wanted more. Can we have 2hr episodes every week lol .

- The dramatic pause/silence at the end was good and so juxtaposing of Elizabeth's starting comment that they had to talk about it because this issue wasn't something that was going to go away. I'm not too sure either what Elizabeth's story was conveying. The way I took it was that Elizabeth remembering that her mother without hesitation told Elizabeth to go serve her country resonates because she would do the exact same should Paige be willing to serve the USSR.

- I really love the bathroom scene when P responds "for my daughter, yes" to E's question of whether he wants a guarantee that life will be easy. Elizabeth's own mother wanted her daughter's life to mean something, maybe even make up for the mistakes of E's father who shirked his responsibility to his country and family. E wants Paige to feel the same sense of purpose and meaning she does and Philip wants to save her from the struggles he knows to well and for her to have freedom and control over her own choices. Everything is just so damn good already this season.

Cellmate

[lovingboth]

I'm sure it does happen, but they already have more than enough on Nina to have her executed.

QR's Usual Rambliew

[quantumreality]

- Nina! So this shitty life is what she has to look forward to for at least the next ten years or so. I don't know if Russia started releasing "political" prisoners after 1991, though.

- Yousaf's in over his head and Philip's in the perfect place to take advantage of it. Sonny, you acted impulsively and now you're in a hole so deep you can't dig out of it.

- Elizabeth and Paige! Quite the change from "get up in the middle of the night and clean the fridge, missy!"

- Paige still thinks her parents are having affairs! But she also likes knowing her parents make a good team, after Elizabeth reassures her.

- Rene Auberjonois as a guest! :D ODOOOOOOOOO.

- Srs FBI guys are very srs.

- WHOA. Holy defector box! :O

- Grisly scene is grisly. I'm not sure it was necessary or useful for the show to reveal this aspect of getting bodies into suitcases, even if it means blackmail material on dear Yousaf.

- Hmm. Looks like the KGB is trying the standard old trick where the "newbie prisoner" makes a connection with the old hand, and so tricks them into revealing something they can use. Although there really isn't much of a need for it here; the KGB already know all they need to know about Nina's activities, which honestly, would be illegal under just about any country's laws (betraying oath of office, attempting to defect to the enemy, et cetera).

- Aside: No Foreign Minister post for Nina, whose career is decidedly NOT on fast track now. :(

- The past! But is it real or a mixture of reality and fantasy? English shows up in the dream, so I suspect maybe part fantasy. It is true that Elizabeth grew up with her mother without a father, though.

- USA and Canada Institute lady defected over Afghanistan. Hmm!

- It's a little weird seeing the guy who plays Jackson Davis in Revolution being one of the middle-management good guys here :P

- Yousaf mooning over the woman he killed. :\

- Well, helloooooooooo Oleg. He's being a bit of a cowboy here, and I can't tell if it's a charade or if it's the real deal unsanctioned mission kinda thingy.

- :D For once, Stan is not the butt monkey.

- Ouch! Elizabeth's still healing. And Phil is being a bit snarky and pushy about the CIA Afghan group thingo.

- And Elizabeth decides to be snarky back!

- Philip has a point. The spy game might seem fun to a teenager, but the instant shit gets real she's going to find a whole new eldritch level of horror to the job.

- Given that food in American prisons is considered shitty enough I can't imagine that any of that food Nina ate (in a Soviet prison) actually tasted like anything.

- When I was Paige's age I read the paper, too XD

- Holy crap shit is gonna get real with this CIA thing. :O

- At least in the bar the CIA guys will be distracted by the waitresses with nice knockers. :P And holy list of beers, Batman. :P Elizabeth's smile was so fake. :P

- Yousaf is mixing some reality with the baited hook. The CIA was throwing money around along with the ISI and in the process helping along not just the usual freedom-fighter type, but also the more radicalized people who would end up not taking kindly to anyone else's way of doing things, even other Afghanis'.

- *gigglesnorts* at the cynical Soviets snarking about Reagan. I imagine it's not so different the world over when leaders show up where they're not necessarily invited. :P

- Lady's name is Tatiana. She appears to be some kind of foreign policy expert type. "Propaganda is more important, etc" - true, but I can't help but get the feeling she's unintentionally referring to the USSR's tendency to substitute sloganeering in place of addressing the fundamental problems within their country.

- Defector lady is about to find out she's a new kind of prisoner. Alas. :| IMDb gives her name as Zinaida Preobrazhenskaya, and I kept thinking I've seen her before, and then it clicked. XD She was in "Motive", playing a Bosnian Serb who'd sneaked out of the former Yugoslavia just after the civil war there and who was wanted for the crime of refusing medical assistance to Bosnian Muslims injured in a battle.

- Nina is let out of the shitty prison cell for a bit :O And she sees the Minister of Railways, Igor Pavlovich - Oleg's old man!

- It's interesting how the buried Soviet past of the Jenningses is nonetheless continuing to inform them in the present day.

Re: QR's Usual Rambliew

[sistermagpie]

The past! But is it real or a mixture of reality and fantasy? English shows up in the dream, so I suspect maybe part fantasy. It is true that Elizabeth grew up with her mother without a father, though.

Where was there English in the dream?

While watching thoughts

[lovingboth]

Hello Nina, he says just at the caption :) Ah yes, there she is. I really like that she's on the toilet bucket: it says an awful lot in a single image. I'm surprised the window is so large though. Ditto the cell.

Elizabeth's still going ouch, note.

Ha, what a question from Paige. Philip isn't having an affair... he's having several, of course.

Diplomatic bag time?

Wouldn't it have been easier to arrange the body earlier? Ha at the photo! Elizabeth's not very disguised, is she?

Given what Nina knows, why stick someone like that in with her? Even if she's not going to see the West in a very long time - killing Belgians has consequences - she can find out stuff she shouldn't.

I'm also wondering why the FBI would take someone they cannot completely trust to the office.

Ha at the flashback... at this stage in the series. Clunk. Ha too at her lie.

A bit early to have a press conference! Step one, be sure what she's going to say. Step two, set up something with a lot fewer journalists in a lot less stressful arrangement.

Oooh. No, I didn't expect it. (I'd have stuck some of this in a promo - presumably they did.) Oleg's putting himself at big risk doing this, mentally as well as physically.

A very good argument between Philip and Elizabeth. Pity there wasn't more of it.

I like Stan's awful call, which just gets worse and worse. And when he sees her, yes, he should be talking to someone else. And not trying to kiss her. Is this the point when he sees that it's over over?

He is lucky to be alive. If it could have been done silently, it would have been better for Elizabeth to have killed them both.

Two of them on this job, note. (How good are the driving scenes in terms of not having anything since the 80s visible?)

Another good argument between the two of them.

Must be a very high ISO film! That's not a very large lens to let lots of light in.

He is right about the policy of course.

This is clearly the 'Philip and Elizabeth have arguments' episode.

Yes, why ask Oleg?

Nina may be in prison, but at least she has access to shampoo...

This conversation is a setup for Philip talking more about his background at some point.

Re: While watching thoughts

[quantumreality]

Two of them on this job, note. (How good are the driving scenes in terms of not having anything since the 80s visible?)

Fairly good I think. The cars are definitely period-boxy, and the storefronts don't look jarringly anachronistic. It helps that they purposely put the camera in near focus on the people so it tends to blur out the outside of the car anyway. Incidentally, even that little Honda station wagon the CIA guy drove is period-appropriate; it was a common style for Japanese cars in the 1970s, who actually shared body designs in that era (which is why Nissan/Datsun cars from that era look like Toyota and a bit like Hondas as well).

It's really the little things like non-period maglocks on hotel doors (which now take cards instead of keys) and whatnot.

Sistermagpie first watch Baggage

[sistermagpie]

From memory, there were of course a lot of things that stood out. I'll leave my first biggest moment till last, because it tied together the beginning and end of the ep.

Love the horror movie touches of not only the body disposal but Zanaida's fantastic first appearance in the gas mask. She might as well have been one of those eggs the corporate guy wanted to bring back home in Aliens.

Loved Stan in this ep, and his instinctively going to Sandra even if he wasn't sure why. His phone message was incredibly sad (he's calling for Matthew Beeman, not any of the other Matthews in the house). We didn't see a lot of Nina, but I'm interested in everything going on there and love seeing Oleg's father telling him one thing, but doing something else out of sight. Which fits him into the themes about parents and kids--Oleg's dad might tell him the party line for various reasons, but he doesn't like his son to be unhappy.

I so far love Zanaida and Tatiana. The actress who's Zanaida, especially, brings a quirkiness that isn't annoying to scenes like the one with the Milky Way bar. Like I said above, I didn't take it as saying life in the Soviet Union was candy-less, but that she had never tried the specific combination that makes up a Milky Way and she loves it. And can have as much as she wants.

Loved Philip's "We should do this more often."

Okay, most importantly, the Paige story. At this point, in ep 2, Elizabeth is just waaaaaay too cocky and has to be heading for a fall--by which I mean a change. She's back to not trusting Philip's judgment completely and focused on everything that seems obviously right from her pov without thinking much about the personal angle (she'll take risks with the CIA people because SHE lost the list, she's got a mountain of personal baggage pushing her to turn Paige). She's disappointed that Philip is being ridiculous about this, but I think shyly confident and proud with Gabriel about her ability to turn Paige into the daughter she wants easily enough, cozying up to her and encouraging her 14-year-old snark about the evils of corporate America.

The road ahead is just sooooo clear to Elizabeth.

Philip, at the moment, seems completely lost. Elizabeth's right that this isn't going away, and Elizabeth is obviously barely keeping herself back from making the pronouncement we've seen her making in previews about what's going to happen here. Philip, of course, is right about asking Elizabeth what she thinks is going to happen with Paige, but Elizabeth is also right in wondering wtf Philip thinks is going to happen if he continues to sulk, since sulking is pretty much all he can do.

I thought the scene where Philip asks about her going home was a nice juxtaposition to her story about her mother telling her to leave home. In both cases the actual personal relationship between her and mother is there primarily so it can be sacrificed so each one can prove how loyal they are to a cause. Her mother not only doesn't beg Elizabeth to stay or say she'll miss her but respects her decision, she tells her to go, whatever Elizabeth thinks. Likewise Elizabeth might be grieving over her mother but actually spending time with her is nothing important. Which I think subtly raises the question: what are you doing this for? The cause is supposed to make the world a better place, but sometimes loving "everyone" means loving no one. (To use LOTR for a reference: You need Frodo AND Sam!)

I think this is also reinforced subtly in Philip's "We should do this more often" when he's at the bar with Elizabeth. He likes spending time with his wife. Elizabeth's all about the mission they're on at that moment. Just as Elizabeth's bonding time with Paige is less about getting to know and enjoy her as a person and more about assessing her for future projects.

Which I think is also reinforced in the chilling scene with Gabriel where Elizabeth reveals that Paige thinks Philip is having an affair--i.e., she's reporting a crack in that relationship due to Philip's commitments to the KGB that Philip doesn't know about. And Gabriel seizes on it for his own agenda, brushing it aside and saying, "But she trusts YOU, though, right?" This isn't a chat about two people who happen to care about Paige, it's a strategy session, and if Philip is going to continue to be a problem maybe it's a good thing for Paige to lose faith in her father and put it in the mother who's manipulating her, ironically by pretending to respect her as an individual different from herself. (Also Pastor Tim since a) he's politically encouraging and b) that will probably make Philip hurt and angry enough to want to claim her for his own side.)

Gabriel has no problem destabilizing Paige's family to get what he wants and at the moment Elizabeth believes that she shouldn't either, except to tell herself that somehow them all being in it together will fix everything.

Again, think back to Gabriel asking Philip about Henry's hockey playing last week and Philip deflecting with "He's more into baseball now" with no elaboration. Elizabeth is willingly giving the KGB info on her family dynamics so they can use it against her daughter and her husband.

Meanwhile, Philip. Lost. And that ending scene. I was on the edge of my seat when Elizabeth told her story and it seemed like he might might might reply only because it was going on and on...and then we just got lots of silence. Ha! Many possible reasons for that. I think Philip needs time to digest that big matzoh ball Elizabeth just laid on him (if he'd known about the "traitor"-by which I assume her mother meant frightened--father he'd probably be even more silent about what to do because wow, no love in that family if you falter, huh?). But I also think Philip doesn't trust Elizabeth very much right now.

But as with most battles, I wouldn't count Philip out. He's just and stubborn as Elizabeth, he just picks and fights his battles differently, often in a sneakier way. Elizabeth might currently think she and the KGB can just roll right over him but then, that's what Napoleon thought too. And Philip likes the cold.

The end of last season was maybe the high point of Philip feeling trust when he started that story--his only story ever--about his childhood. But his normal mode is to deflect and I can, sadly, see him as just instinctively not wanting to give Elizabeth anything personal on this subject. He might not even be consciously thinking about it and just have retreated.

There could be other reasons for it too, of course. Because Philip has to have his own story about making exactly this choice, and he and Elizabeth are pretty much the same age. Did he not have anyone to care if he went or stayed? Did he not think it was best to say, "My mother cried for three days...I guess she liked having me around." No way to know, but there's no way that the show isn't intentionally lampshaded his silence about his past at this point.

Which brings me back to that first scene. Last season we had lots of Philip looking at himself in mirrors (and not like Elizabeth has been lately, to look at her jaw injury). We had the Mossad agent asking if his name was his name/face was his face/children were his children. We had Baklanov referring to "whoever he once was" (implying he's nobody now).

Now we start an ep with Yousef point-blank asking "Who are you?" Philip doesn't directly answer, he just tells him what he needs from him. He talks about "his people" and what are happening to them, removing himself from the equation except as a go-between. And then the ep ends with Elizabeth telling this story about the most important decision of her life, one that we know Philip also not only was faced with but made, we get a long pause where most people would answer, and instead he just lets it sit there. As someone interested in his backstory I know I was left thinking, "Who ARE you?" even before I remembered Yousef saying the same thing.

Where P&E each are re: Paige

[jae]

Man, you are on fire this week! I love your interpretation of where Philip and Elizabeth each are with respect to Paige. You're totally right that Philip is lost and Elizabeth, even though she says she's not all the way convinced, is being kind of obnoxiously clear about how she's leaning.

Is it the next episode or the one after it that the scene we saw with Paige in it occurs--do you remember?

-J

Various thoughts

[cadma]

This is keeping up the trend towards less self-contained episodes. I thought last week felt more like a long set-up than the previous two first episodes -- they had central plots about Timoshev and the Connors and that one didn't really.

Philip really sounds panicked when dealing with what happened with Yousef.

Interesting to see where Paige is with her parents. She seemed to see them as united in whatever they were up to last season but now is thinking Philip might be the guilty one. Her observations are kind of getting more accurate -- P&E do look out for each other, P is actually with someone else when he's away at night, and there's some discontent between them since the end of last season that Paige's probably picking up on as well, esp. since Elizabeth's started going to church with her and Philip hasn't.

On the other hand it doesn't seem to worry her as much, I guess because the situation is more stable (no one suddenly moving out) and the conflict over church has stopped.

The body disposal is the most horrifying thing I've ever seen on TV. Especially for Philip and Yousaf who knew her when she was alive.

Surely diplomatic immunity wouldn't actually cover murdering a law enforcement official? Oleg must really be pretty upset to reach this point. Although it seems quite in character for him to come up with something like this but not be able to follow through.

I get the feeling that knowing she 'can't go back' and that's final is a way of coping for so many years for Elizabeth, like if she started to entertain the possibility that she could it would prey on her mind or bring up a lot of doubts or conflicted feelings. Plus when her memories are so important to her part of her might not want to have them affected by seeing everything again but different.

Interesting also that Paige is reading the newspaper this week when she was switching away from the tv news last week. She's interested in the story about college that might affect her but still doesn't see what happens in the USSR as relevant to her.

What do people think is up with Tatiana? Apparently she's getting Oleg to talk to sources in the press? Maybe this means Charles Duluth will be back soon.

The revelation about Elizabeth's mother has to make a big impact on Philip. It's going to make it really hard for him to convince her that keeping your kid out of the intelligence service is what a good/loving parent would do, because what would that say about Elizabeth's mother? He'll have to convince her that her mother didn't understand what she would be getting into.

Comparing the first two episodes of s2 and s3

[jae]

This is keeping up the trend towards less self-contained episodes. I thought last week felt more like a long set-up than the previous two first episodes -- they had central plots about Timoshev and the Connors and that one didn't really.

Interesting--I was actually thinking the opposite with respect to the comparison between season 2 and season 3, i.e. that in s2, too, it felt very much like the same sort of setting-up episodes. In both seasons the showrunners themselves were the ones who got the writing credit for the first two episodes, and I don't think that's an accident (and in season two they also got the credit for the final two, and it wouldn't surprise me to see that trend hold true this season).

-J

[soupytwist]

They really went for the heavy punches in this episode! The sound they made breaking Annelise's limbs to fit her body in a suitcase was...memorable. And the first shot of Nina showing her literally on the loo! (I only just thought of this but yeah, her life really has gone down the toilet, hah.) And Oleg nearly shooting Stan, and Stan on the phone! Damn.

I really like that we got more specific detail on why Elizabeth specifically thinks recruiting Paige may be a good idea, but it does mean that it's more and more obvious how little we're getting on Philip. They're building up to something big there, I think. (Hope. But I trust these showrunners quite a lot: whatever they're doing here has purpose, I'm sure.)

I thought it was cool to see how far some things have come in the Jennings household: Paige talking to Elizabeth about her dad's weirdness, and the way the conversations between Philip and Elizabeth about her mum went, were SO different than they would have been only a short time ago. And they were discussing SERIOUS SHIT at the travel agency office! OMG, even if those "October receipts" were a billion times neater than any real pile of receipts I've ever seen in my life.

(I got the feeling Philip's "you could see her" as being a desperation thing: like, if you are willing to spend ten hours wearing oxygen gear in a freezing cold shipping crate, then yeah, you can do lots of things.)

I was really glad Sandra didn't get back with Stan. I took her "why" moment as being "why NOW": it might have made a difference, had he said those things a year ago or two years ago, but by now it's much too late. And he said he understood that, but with Stan I find it hard to gauge what he's saying because it seems right or he knows he should, and what he's saying because he truly understands and feels that way. So while I completely believe he really does want to talk to Sandra above anyone...well, he doesn't exactly have anyone else, does he? And he says he knows he can't turn to her any more, but there he is, very clearly turning to her. I mean, those are very HUMAN things to do, and I really feel for him (his phonecall made me choke up, Jesus, that was heartwrending) but I don't get the feeling that Stan is anything like as in control and aware as he wants to think.

Which...is pretty true of most of us really, so.

The defector lady is quite clearly going to die soon, and that makes me sad. I liked the making fun of Reagan moment, though, that rang very true. And is it weird that I kind of love vengeance!Oleg? I think he's doing that with some sort of ok from Arkady (maybe not "yeah let's plan it" and more "I will look the other way if you do what needs to be done"?) but it still makes me happy that Nina has him on her side.

Also: NINA NINA NINA NINA. I love her and I love that she is so brave and smart in a really tough situation. I don't want her Dutch cellmate to be a plant at all but it makes much sense that Nina'd operate on the assumption that she IS. And Oleg's dad. Eep.

Sandra and Stan

[jae]

If Sandra and Stan had gotten back together right there, it would have been just too easy. (So easy it would have taken all the poignancy out of the moment, even.) I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's where things are heading eventually, though, just for narrative reasons.

-J

Treon's thoughts

[treonb]

Just a few random points:
1. Was there a point in not telling us the defector's name until the end? I was sure it was going to become a running gag with 'what's her name'.
2. A little nitpick. KGB interrogation rooms were set up to awe the person being interrogated and to make him feel he was back in civilization - very large and airy room, imposing desk etc. A dingy room is the American method.
3. My favorite part, I think, was Elizabeth and Philip strolling into a bar covered by the CIA. "We should do this more often". Ha.
4. That last scene... was Elizabeth twisting the knife on purpose? She's an expert in handling people, telling Philip that he's a bad Russian is not really going to help.

Not telling us the defector's name

[jae]

I thought we learned the defector's name last week?

-J

Elizabeth's tooth issue

[theplatonicnonyeah]

Just a thought that I know I shouldn't really be focusing on, because suspension of belief and all that, but...how come the KGB can conjure up a highly qualified surgeon to fix a gun shot wound, but not give some simple dentist care to one of their agents?

Re: Elizabeth's tooth issue

[jae]

That is a good point! Apparently Directorate S's rudimentary medical training is as neglectful of dentistry as the Canadian health care system is...

-J

Some late thoughts on Baggage

[saraqael]

Thought I would post some thoughts on 'Baggage' before the next episode aired. Many of the posts here have already touched on things that I noticed about this episode so I'll try not to repeat what someone else has already commented on.

Poor Stan. His near-death experience didn't help him to feel more alive at all. The EST speaker was correct that Stan and Philip (all of spies actually) aren't leading 'authentic' lives, but Stan's near-death experience only revealed how isolated and alone he truly is. That sad, awkward phone message he left for Matthew and Sandra broke my heart (props to Noah Emmerich for an outstanding performance here), but it just got worse when he went to see Sandra in person. He was so desperate to connect to her, but when she asked him why, he just mumbled that he didn't know. Argh! I wanted to shake him so hard when he said he didn't know why he needed to reach out to her. Sandra left him because of his inability to 'be authentic' with her (to use the EST guy's terminology). Their relationship was on the skids ever since the time he spent undercover. Sandra pulled away and said that she wasn't going to come back to him just because he was nearly shot. I wonder though what might have happened if Stan had been able to say that she was the only person on earth he wanted to be with at that moment because he still loved her, or even just because she was the only person on earth who truly knows who he is... what might she have done then? Poor Stan is just an inarticulate, disconnected mess of a human being right now. To me, Sandra represents Stan's past, before he went undercover and then got involved in the spy-counter spy business. Whatever Stan experienced when he went undercover with the white supremacist group changed him somehow and made him unable to be with Sandra any more.

(As an aside, I've always wondered exactly what Stan did when he was undercover. He's never talked about it. I re-watched S1 and S2, and any time that people commented on it, he only ever said 'it wasn't what they thought it was like.' There was a point during S1 when I wondered if Stan himself might be a sleeper agent who'd infiltrated the FBI because he was so good at deflecting talk about his past.)

Continuing on the EST idea that sex and near death experiences are authentic... good grief. Philip went from having emotionally awkward, regretful sex with Annelise in his car shortly thereafter to cracking apart her dead body in order to stuff it into a suitcase. OMG, that scene was so disturbing to me, not just in how gruesomely graphic it was, but also how it illuminates on just how inhuman and detached these people all are from anything remotely resembling normal human feelings. How could anyone calmly snap the limbs of someone they knew intimately and not freak out and be filled with self loathing? Philip and Elizabeth were so efficient at it, too. They must have been trained how to do this - which is gross enough to contemplate -- but they did it so quickly and so well that I wondered if they've done it before.

There was a parallel in this episode between Stan being unable to connect with Sandra (he literally cannot express his own feelings to her) and Elizabeth being unable to connect with her dying mother. When Philip suggested that Elizabeth should go home to Russia to be with her mother, Elizabeth rejected the idea completely. I'm still wondering why Elizabeth shut down that option so absolutely. Elizabeth has always been so motivated by her memories of her mother. At this point though, she hasn't even seen her mother for a significant portion of her life. Elizabeth was recruited by the KBG when she was just a teen, and she's spent over a decade in America. She's grown into adulthood with a fake identity with a fake family in a nation and culture she despises. She doesn't like people calling her by her real name, except perhaps for her mother, and now she's losing her mother. She's losing her only connection to who she really is (or was). Once Elizabeth's mother dies there will be no one left who remembers her as Nadezhda.

While Elizabeth is in the midst of losing her mother, she's still adamant about recruiting Paige. I think it would destroy Paige to find out that everything she knew about her family and her parents was a lie. Elizabeth seems to think that she can somehow turn her American daughter into a communist ideological devotee and traitor to the nation of her birth simply because Paige is seeking a way to channel her idealism. She wants to do to Paige what she did to herself.

But I think Philip is right that Paige (and Henry too) deserve better. To me, the biggest smoking gun in this series is the fact that way back in the very first episode, Philip admitted that he wanted to defect. He values his family more than anything else. He's well aware that his children are American and can't be turned into communist Russians no matter how much he and Elizabeth may miss their own true homeland. If Elizabeth and Gabriel keep pushing this agenda with Paige, I wonder if Philip might think that defecting is his only option to save his kids. I don't see any way for this series to end happily for any of these characters, but I hate to think that it's going to end with Elizabeth and Philip totally at odds with each other.

Don't let anybody say that espionage is glamorous work. All of these people are a mess: Stan unable to articulate his feelings to Sandra; Philip and Elizabeth have deadened themselves to anything remotely resembling normal human feelings so that they can crack apart the body of an acquaintance; even Nina turned away from her weeping cell mate and wrapped herself in a blanket to shield herself from this other woman.

Re: Some late thoughts on Baggage

[treonb]

I really like your analysis or the Elizabeth/Stan parallels, and this line in particular:

Once Elizabeth's mother dies there will be no one left who remembers her as Nadezhda.

I believe she does love her mother, no matter how long it's been since she last saw her. But you're completely right - her mother represents so much more.

The podcast

[theplatonicnonyeah]

I hope you've all discovered Molly Nussbaum's wonderful podcast, which is released after each episode. She is the script coordinator for the show and on the podcast she talks with people involved in the process of creating our favourite TV pastime. So far she's had Joel Fields, Joe Wesiberg and Dan Sackheim discuss various aspects and details. It is spoilery, but only about the latest episode. And they do shed some interesting light on quite a few of the things that we discuss here also, like the breaking of bones, transporting people in crates and how to recreate a Russian prison. ;-)

Re: The podcast

[jae]

I linked to it in the last linkspam, actually. It's wonderful! If you wanted to make a separate post about it (maybe with a little description of how people subscribe to such things, for podcast newbies), that would be really great.

-J