Episode discussion post: "EST Men"
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theamericansAired:
28 January 2015 in the U.S. and Canada
This is a discussion post for episode 301 of The Americans, intended for viewers who are watching the show on the U.S./Canadian schedule. (Feel free to dive in to the discussion even if you're coming in late--and you should also feel free to start a new thread if it seems too daunting to read through what's already been posted first. If you're reading this at a point where you've already seen subsequent episodes, though, please take care to keep comments spoiler-free of anything that comes after season three, episode one.)
Original promo trailer
Episode recaps (including some early-season generalities)
From Grantland
From Vox 1 and 2
From Vulture
From Hitfix
From the Washington Post
From TIME
From the New York Times
From Slate
From Hollywood Reporter
From Slant
From Salon
From the Washington Post
From the New Republic
From Yahoo 1 and 2
From the AV Club
From the Atlantic
From the Boston Globe
From Entertainment Weekly
From TV Guide
From Spoiler TV
From theworkprint.com
From IndieWire 1 and 2
From Slant
From Variety
From thedailynews.com
From Geeks of Doom
From Starpulse
From TV Equals
From Screenrant
From We Got This Covered
28 January 2015 in the U.S. and Canada
This is a discussion post for episode 301 of The Americans, intended for viewers who are watching the show on the U.S./Canadian schedule. (Feel free to dive in to the discussion even if you're coming in late--and you should also feel free to start a new thread if it seems too daunting to read through what's already been posted first. If you're reading this at a point where you've already seen subsequent episodes, though, please take care to keep comments spoiler-free of anything that comes after season three, episode one.)
Original promo trailer
Episode recaps (including some early-season generalities)
From Grantland
From Vox 1 and 2
From Vulture
From Hitfix
From the Washington Post
From TIME
From the New York Times
From Slate
From Hollywood Reporter
From Slant
From Salon
From the Washington Post
From the New Republic
From Yahoo 1 and 2
From the AV Club
From the Atlantic
From the Boston Globe
From Entertainment Weekly
From TV Guide
From Spoiler TV
From theworkprint.com
From IndieWire 1 and 2
From Slant
From Variety
From thedailynews.com
From Geeks of Doom
From Starpulse
From TV Equals
From Screenrant
From We Got This Covered
no subject
Date: 2015-01-29 06:51 am (UTC)Kama Sutra
Date: 2015-01-29 02:50 pm (UTC)-J
Re: Kama Sutra
From:Re: Kama Sutra
From:no subject
Date: 2015-01-29 08:01 am (UTC)Intense first episode, just like the two previous seasons, as well as leaving off on a little cliff hanger. Good television!
Some details:
-less incidental music than before, which I liked, because it left everything much rawer and realer somehow.
-there was a Patagonia poster behind Philip at the travel agent office! (Some of you may know that Matthew has travelled extensively there and also written a book about it, not to mention starred in a film with the same name. A bit of meta!)
-intro music was slightly different
-was the other agent that got beat up not American? At first I thought he sounded British.
-"Frusen glädje" was an actual thing, I read somewhere. I had no idea and it was a fun detail for a Swedish person to see.
At the very beginning, are we to believe that Elizabeth pushed Paige into the water at the bath house? I do get the symbolism of the scene, but was it imagined or real, do you think?
As always, this show brings up the position of women and their changing roles during this time period in so many excellent ways. First with the alcoholic CIA agent retelling how she was ignored when doing a better job than her male colleague. Then Sandra's whole storyline about breaking free from a failed marriage and becoming her own person. Elizabeth dual personality as a "domestic goddess" and mother, while also being a lethal fighting machine. (Gabriel's comment about her being a good American housewife...)
Martha, simultaneously being her own person with a job and her own home, but wanting a family and a man in her life.
I like that even we as an audience don't know what Nina's true feelings are. She obviously has two men who love her in their own way, but I don't feel we have (yet) learned whether her feelings for either of them are genuine or calculated. Maybe she loves both?
Underlying theme of the whole episode was HONESTY, in my opinion. Stan lying to Sandra, Annelise telling the truth to Yousaf, Clark saying "yes" to Martha after the Kama Sutra session, Scott telling Annelise it's ok, Elizabeth telling Gabriel what he/The Centre wants to hear about Paige.
Things ahead: It will be interesting to see what the Gabriel character will bring to this season. We are led to understand he is like a father figure to E and P. But how is he going to use that trust? And of course, Martha's got a gun!
no subject
Date: 2015-01-29 08:13 am (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2015-01-29 03:17 pm (UTC)ETA: Actually, more accurately, I think the name was not gibberish, but there was a mistake in it. Perhaps one of the accents, I think. So it looks like Swedish but by people who in no way speak Swedish.
I thought that was really fascinating because we've so often *seen* Philip and Elizabeth doing dishes together, or even just Philip washing one. They don't have a completely progressive marriage or anything but especially last season they seemed to use the kitchen showing them doing that chore together. I'd wondered if taking care of the kids on his own just made Philip much more used to doing housework. So Gabriel saying that to Elizabeth was really a comedown from her real domestic life, and not really accurate about "American housewives" either--but it was probably meant to inspire her anti-US feeling just a bit.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:Scott the Swede
From:Re: Scott the Swede
From:Re: Scott the Swede
From:Nina and frusen glädje
Date: 2015-01-29 07:41 pm (UTC)I agree with you that it's fun not knowing what Nina's true feelings are, but man, does that ever make the idea of writing fanfiction or meta about her particularly difficult. No one in the fandom has written a single story about her yet, and I think that's a lot of why.
-J
P.S. Fun to see you here after I've gotten to know you a bit better on Twitter! *waves*
Re: Nina and frusen glädje
From:Philip/Stan slash
From:Re: Philip/Stan slash
From:Re: Philip/Stan slash
From:Re: Philip/Stan slash
From:Re: Philip/Stan slash
From:QR's usual Rambliew
Date: 2015-01-29 08:12 am (UTC)- The sexism of the 1970s and 1980s nearly bit the CIA in the ass, considering it led to Lady whatshername nearly selling out for good.
- What the hell was Gaad doing on a thing like this? :O The only thing that saved him was probably that Elizabeth recognized him in the first place. Also, great gambit on her part to put them in the way of the motorcyclist to distract the agent!
- The EST thing seemed quite absurd to me, but eh.
- Stan's brainbox is starting to click! I think he's gonna start figuring out Phil and Elizabeth this season XD
- Gaad with his nose taped up and the other dude even more banged up were both kinda funny :P
- We finally meet old Gabriel! Wonder if he's like, the equivalent of a retiree from the KGB they let stay in the USA for his years of service. (Also: Frank Langella XD ) He seems very tactile and hands-on which probably lent a personal style to his job as handler that Claudia lacked.
- Paige being sweet on the young guy from church was kind of amusing. And she has big poofy 1982 hair! XD
- Elizabeth and that tape! She is first happy, then sad. What happened???? :O
- Stan and Sandra just can't get along :(
- Elizabeth seems to be trying to have it both ways with the whole "fob off the Center and Philip simultaneously" thingo.
- In that light Philip holding his knife after being denied his brownie looked oddly menacing.
- In light of the mess the US got into with Afghanistan and Iraq it's rather eerily strange to see the Soviet side of things involving much the same sort of being-stuck-in-the-bog sensation without necessarily any clear plan for a way out.
- Speaking of, I like Arkady's continued circumspectness contrasted with Oleg's relative outspokenness. Also, an interesting point they addressed re: Nina! They bugged the safehouse, and Stan was a complete idiot for not considering the possibility.
- Martha doing her gun practice is interesting. I wonder if Phil's been messing with her gunsights or her glasses.
- PHILIP AND MARTHA KAMA SUTRA SEX OMFG DED OF LOL NOW
- Elizabeth's peace offering to Philip in the travel agency. Aww :)
- Unfortunately it segues into a sad revelation of the contents of the tape :( Poor Elizabeth's Mom. Chances are she'll never be able to go see her mom one last time :(
- USA and Canada institute person. In real life a person named Georgy Arbatov was one of their high officials and he was actually quite sympathetic to the notion of closer international cooperation.
- And now Elizabeth meets random cute young guy. She's training him! :O Wonder how he got into the spy game.
- Henry! Wonder how he's been holding up. And Elizabeth comes in, and we hear of Brezhnev's death! Of course, for her it doesn't really mean anything, but for Philip and Elizabeth it will mean something more and they'll be wondering what comes next.
- Annelise! :O Looks like Mr. ISI guy made a big mistake, since Philip has something he can hold over him now.
Re: QR's usual Rambliew
Date: 2015-01-29 11:25 am (UTC)Re: QR's usual Rambliew
From:Re: QR's usual Rambliew
Date: 2015-01-29 03:20 pm (UTC)I don't know why, but this line seems to completely sum up Philip in some wonderful, accurate way. I love it.
I suspect he'd consider that even more dangerous. You don't want Martha working with a gun that doesn't shoot straight!
Re: QR's usual Rambliew
From:Re: QR's usual Rambliew
From:Why Gaad was doing in-the-field crap in the first place
Date: 2015-01-29 07:43 pm (UTC)I was asking myself this too. I felt like explaining that was a missed bet, as well--you could have easily had a throwaway line where he said it was because they were shortstaffed or something.
-J
Re: Why Gaad was doing in-the-field crap in the first place
From:Re: Why Gaad was doing in-the-field crap in the first place
From:no subject
Date: 2015-01-29 09:58 am (UTC)This brings me to Oleg. (Poor baby.) Actually, Oleg's dad, who apparently thinks that "political ties should not be used for person matters" (jic, I don't know/remember how the English subs translated it, I'm translating straight from the Russian). Which LOL. That's a very un-Russian sentiment. My guess is, Oleg's father just doesn't want to be seen by HIS political "ties" as fraternizing with traitors.
"Now be a good American wife and do the dishes." LOLOL. Oh the irony. Seeing as how Russia's sexism problems were in no way cured by socialism. Oh yes, women worked...and did ALL the housework too (unless it required heavy lifting or a hammer or something).
It's interesting that they don't sub the part where Elizabeth is listening to the tape from her mother. I guess it's to later have the reveal with Phillip, although she doesn't tell him what is wrong with her mother. (Do we have that info from somewhere else in canon? I can't remember.)
no subject
Date: 2015-01-29 12:43 pm (UTC)Interestingly, wasn't Oleg once employed/sent to the US because he had the right connections?
About the tape that Elizabeth listened to, I could clearly discern the word 'doctor' and quickly worked out what her mother was telling her once the tears started flowing also. But knowing this show I am so sceptical of the authenticity of that tape. What's to say her mother wasn't forced to read up the statement in order to push some emotional buttons for Elizabeth?
(no subject)
From:Nina
From:Re: Nina
From:Opening credits changes
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From:Elizabeth's tape from her mother: the Russian content
From:Re: Elizabeth's tape from her mother: the Russian content
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From:Russian names
From:Georgley's initial thoughts
Date: 2015-01-29 10:09 am (UTC)Firstly, I'm just so glad the show is back. I don't think I even realised how much I missed it until it started again!
A few things I loved:
-Gabriel!! I love how different he is compared to Kate and Claudia. He's like a father figure to Philip and Elizabeth and I particularly liked that he cooked dinner for them.
- Elizabeth saving the brownie for Philip. Little moments between these two just have so much meaning when we've seen how their relationship has developed over the last two seasons.
- Phil and Stan at EST was hilarious to me. It seemed so awkward.
- Elizabeth getting another tape from her mother. It was also interesting that there were no subtitles during that scene.
I do wonder how much Stan's suspicions have been raised after seeing Elizabeth injured. Her face didn't seem bruised at that point though (or at least it looked that way on my computer screen).
I'm just so glad the show is back!
Gabriel
Date: 2015-01-29 07:48 pm (UTC)-J
P.S. So good to see you here! Between you and some of the other names that are popping up again, I'm feeling like we've gotten the band back together again or something. :D
Re: Gabriel
From:Re: Gabriel
From:While watching thoughts
Date: 2015-01-29 11:18 am (UTC)Elizabeth's not in the photos. Don't go down into the bath, stand up :)
The throwing Paige in the deep end memory is a bit of a clunk.
Didn't I mention something at the end of last series about sexism in three letter agencies as one reason not to go for Paige as the new agent?
I wonder who she's calling.
Yeah, I'd be looking at each other at that crap too.
Ah, is she trying to get Elizabeth to stay long enough to be arrested? A significant rumble on the soundtrack there... and a significant look.
I'd have thought she would have switched clothes earlier than that. I wonder why she hasn't done the wig.
Fighting them is a risky thing to do if she's not sure of winning. They've no probable cause for a stop - if they thought she was the one, they wouldn't have been so polite. And that's another... And why not put the critical bit of paper somewhere safer earlier? (And why not have a car close by?)
Oooh, how topical. The Americans are supporting that bunch, of course.
Ha at the put-down of someone we know is right.
Of course, his job as Resident is always at risk too.
Why be visibly hurt in front of Stan?
Stan's looking very thoughtful in the office.
.. now it's Elizabeth's turn.
She's not going ouch when people touch her arm like that or she moves it around though.
Remind me who the Frank Langella character is? Is that a significant ice cream brand?
Stan does not look convinced, does he? No, he's not.
Speaking of not being convinced, I don't like the 'Oh, we recorded her in the safe house, something significant happened, and we didn't bother to tell you dear audience' bit.
Oh, here she is. It'd have been more of a surprise if she wasn't in the 'previously'.
Deliberate cut from one woman quietly crying to another there.
Back to the 'what do you deserve' theme of the end few episodes of the last series.
'Why?' What a good question that - for a FBI agent! - he hadn't expected. Ha at her spotting he was lying.
Ha at the contrast between this sex with Martha and the sex previously.
She's got the ice pack at work - so why hasn't she been going ouch for the previous few scenes? Speaking of ice, that's a cold response to a nice gesture.
Ha, he knows what putting the copier on means when she comes back in, a difficult conversation.
"No, it's ok, I can get to the pavement / sidewalk from here..." I know it's a wide street, but she could be a little closer to the side.
He'd have bugged the room, surely, rather than try to listen through the wall.
Telling him was always going to be a bad idea.
I did wonder if he was wanting to rescue her or blackmail him. He's improvising the latter - it may not have been too late to resuscitate her.
Re: While watching thoughts
Date: 2015-01-29 12:49 pm (UTC)The hurt arm and ice-pack thing was badly done continuity.
Philip's sex life must be powered by some extra high testosterone and/or aphrodisiac the way he's able to get an erection at the drop of a hat and maintain it with a person he's not really that interested in.
Re: While watching thoughts
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From:Re: Philip's erections...SPOILERS WITHIN
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From:Erectile issues within the KGB
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From:Throwing Baby!Paige into the pool
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From:no subject
Date: 2015-01-29 01:00 pm (UTC)Gabriel being the old/new handler was the one thing I got accidentally spoiled for last month, but other than that, I managed to remain unspoiled, and a great experience that was, too. Speaking of Gabriel, hello, Frank Langella! Obviously a father figure to P & E, and the hugging, not the distant type of father figure, too, and it makes sense that the Centre would bring him back now. But they wouldn't if they weren't sure his loyalties were to the Cause above P & E. Speaking of loyalties, the great thing about these characters with lies as their profession is that you can't tell whether Elizabeth means what she tells Gabriel (getting Paige ideologically ready) or what she tells Philip (just saying that to get the Centre of our back) or whether both aren't true (Elizabeth wouldn't want anyone else interferring with her daughter, but the idea that Paige will eventually be ready to hear the truth about her and accept it, even join, is still incredibly seductive to her).
Stan and Philip at EST were priceless. BTW, I'm with them - it sounds like absolute rubbish. Though I'm also with Sandra in that Stan keeping lying to her to avoid confrontation is absolutely systematic of why their marriage broke apart (and she can still read him like a book).
Elizabeth's tape from her mother: I was surprised at first that we didn't get any subtitles. Then I thought, maybe it's because the Centre is putting some extra pressure on Elizabeth (who is ideologically more reliable generally) re: Paige and that's what the mother says, some sort of blackmail. But I suppose it was simply to build up the later revelation scene with Philip, i.e. that her mother is sick. Oh, and the fact Gabriel has a tape for Elizabeth and none for Phiilp confirms my theory Philip has no living relations in Russia, methinks.
I don't get why Elizabeth didn't get rid of her wig and glasses look as soon as she was out of sight of that bar? Seems to be solely for a Doylist reason (so that Gaad doesn't get to see her real look later).
CIA sexism making a female CIA agent, Charlotte, nearly become a mole: no sympathy for the CIA here. It's probably pretty realistic. Once again we see Elizabeth being a good spy: she picks up on Charlotte having changed her mind and thinks of wiping her glass for prints before leaving immediately.
Stan teaching Martha how to shoot: that Chekovian gun is so going to get used this season, I tell you. Along with the Chekovian glasses: they might give Stan the idea of having some do another sketch of their female Illegal, without them. But I'm not clear on how the show would justify him figuring out P & E's identities this season if they want to continue.
Also: speaking of set up, I wonder whether Stan will make a deal - Nina versus deserter the FBI is supposed to protect now?
Arkady and Oleg: Nina not reporting two of her meetings with Stan is a bit of a retcon, but I don't think it necessarily means Nina was in love with Stan, just that she was keeping some information to herself to trade, just in case. (The way she never told Stan about the Weinberger clock even before coming clean with Arkady.) Anyway, Oleg continuing to want helping her regardless of her emotions for whomever is very sympathetic. But Arkady is right, Oleg really can't blurt out his true thoughts in their type of society. The new character, Tatiana, looks a bit like Agent Scully, I thought.
And speaking of people who shouldn't reveal the truth, poor Annalise. For someone who started out as pretty one dimensional, she certainly became affecting. The show keeps Philip on the grey side of morally ambiguous by letting him not figure out what is likely happening until the lamp falls (and then reacting at once), but also, professional that he is, using the situation immediately to get leverage on Yousef.
Past as comment on the present: the Afghanistan execution video, obviously. Methinks our writers have a "these were the demons we conjured up ourselves" message going on.
no subject
Date: 2015-01-29 01:12 pm (UTC)Stan doesn't have to live to tell what he's found out. The show could survive without him...
(no subject)
From:Stan's life expectancy
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From:Nina not reporting two of her meetings with Stan
From:Trading Nina for the deserter
From:Jae's thoughts on second watch
Date: 2015-01-29 02:48 pm (UTC)• There was some super-obvious authorial intrusion when Charlotte started complaining about how they train you to conduct operations in the CIA and then never send you into the field. O hai Mr. Weisberg, how's it goin?
• I loved pretty much everything about Elizabeth's mission this episode, but two cool spy things worth singling out are the reversible coat and the quick thinking with the motorcycle crash.
• Although my very favourite bit about that operation was the way it signalled right upfront that the FBI will be more of a threat this season. Gaad having contact with Elizabeth--and seeing her face--was the perfect setup for that. It was very much a "we're not in season two anymore" sort of feeling on that front, and I appreciate both the fact of that and the incredibly clever way they managed to signal it narratively. And then later, the line "Could be the same illegal we were going after before." The FBI is on the case again! Although the first point goes to the Soviets, I think--that was a doozy of a broken nose, Gaad. ("She was about 5'3", 5'4"?")
• Switching gears, I loved that Stan tried EST in order to win Sandra back, but I loved even more that he invited his good friend Philip to go with him. That says a lot about where he thinks their friendship is.
• The change to the opening credits will take some getting used to, but for the most part I'm feeling positive. A few things seem to be different: the font for the credits themselves, some of the images, and part of the music. (Joe Weisberg had a few things to say on Twitter last night about why the changes, too.)
• I sensed a hard-won respect between Oleg and Arkady in this episode--they've come a long way since early season two. It's going to be fun to watch them pair up on more of the string-pulling side of spying now that they trust each other more. They still have differences of opinion, though: Oleg feels that "they have to speak freely here to do their jobs", while Arkady is an old-fashioned and circumspect sort of spy (and pragmatic, too) who thinks they should think more and talk less. Also interesting that Oleg tried, hard, to get Nina pardoned (or something), and failed, but hasn't given up hope. Arkady, on the other hand, has moved on. She was a traitor, after all.
• I loved everything about Gabriel. The fact that the show remembered his existence from the few mentions he's had, the way he's clearly a father figure to them who they knew for years, the way he makes no bones about relishing some of the privileges that come with living in the U.S. but is still Soviet through and through. I am delighted with him and can't wait to see more.
• Also, on that note: when we visited the set, we didn't see Gabriel's apartment, so I wonder whether that was done on-location?
• I thought the hymn of choice in the Paige-and-Elizabeth church scene was very clever. I don't know a lot of hymns, but for whatever reason I knew this one, and it's funny because the line "What a privilege to carry everything to God in prayer" has always struck me as...kind of bizarre? Like, that sounds like a strange thing to say about the way Christians' relationship with God works: "we are so LUCKY that we get to report back to our Creator on how things are going for us even though he knows everything anyway." But if you think about it, that's very much the relationship that Elizabeth has with her country: her role is to keep telling the Center exactly what's going on--and she really does feel that it's a privilege to do this.
• This surprises me not at all, but I was still glad to see that the show can portray Philip and Elizabeth at being so clearly at odds over Paige (and voicing to each other how they feel), yet still clearly very close and trusting in the scenes about Elizabeth's injuries and Elizabeth's mother. This season will try their marriage, but it won't break it.
• Annelise, oh, Annelise. First let me just say that I was impressed by how changed a character she was from her first appearance in season one: and not in a way that was at all unbelievable, either. The experience of getting involved with Yousaf "for the cause" changed her entire demeanor and even her appearance. It didn't make her any more stable in the end, of course, but I love all the ways that her changed personality and appearance hint at the things that must have happened to her along the way. Also, Yousaf! His face as he was strangling her--that was just so freaking sad.
• And then Philip, immediately after, pulling out all the stops and being all improvisation Superman. Is he going to run Yousaf himself as an agent? Talk about volatile, unwilling accomplices!
Re: Jae's thoughts on second watch
Date: 2015-01-29 03:02 pm (UTC)My favourite bit was probably Oleg recounting how his father said one should never use political connections for personal gain, and Oleg was clearly finding him cold and horrible, but I was kind of, 'Yeah, that's actually how it's supposed to go'. (Though I'm unsure how the show intended this to read and whether it was more with me or with Oleg. *g*)
Oleg's father not using connections for gain
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From:Threatened with death and having sex
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From:Elizabeth's face while in the bar
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From:Stan, Sandra and EST
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From:Stan and women
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From:no subject
Date: 2015-01-29 02:56 pm (UTC)(Though I was a little surprised that, given Elizabeth knew the CIA operative had changed her mind and people were looking for her, she just kept walking. I don't really know much about the spy profession, but wouldn't it have made sense to dive into an alley or try to get into a house instead of walking continously?)
Frank Langella seems cast to type and yet this was the first time I liked him in that type of role. :-) Go figure!
I can't make up my mind about whether the Afghanistan video parallel is too on the nose for me, or just evilly clever commentary.
I thought the choice of showing Elizabeth listening to the tape without subtitles was very clever. I don't know how obvious this would be to a North American ear, but I clearly heard the 'doctor' in all the Russian I didn't understand, and together with the realisation on Elizabeth's face I knew what was up before she talked to Philip -- it was a very elegant way to play that scene, IMO.
The crack about the 'American housewife' doing the dishes annoyed me, though. I sincerely doubt that Russian women were not the ones stuck with the dishes even when they weren't housewives. (If anything, I'd assume American women got out of doing dishes earlier because dishwasher...)
Something is definitely going to happen with Martha and her gun this season...
no subject
Date: 2015-01-29 04:30 pm (UTC)I'm going for evilly clever commentary.
Exit strategy
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From:Charlotte and "Screw the CIA"
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From:Doing the dishes innuendo
From:Sistermagpie first watch
Date: 2015-01-29 04:56 pm (UTC)I was surprised that the EST scene was really just short and "this is nonsense." It's actually a great set up the way they introduce all these things that some people glom onto and others just think are silly, whether it's Christianity, Communism, or EST. Sandra's "you just don't get it" is apparently an EST thing--"getting it" is the key. And yet in the seminar the guy says that maybe the one time you might be living truly is when your life is in danger so it was kind of great that Philip and Stan were unmoved. From what that guy was saying the two of them often do seem to be living authentically. Philip more than Stan, maybe.
In general, actually, I get that impression about EST. Not anything specific about EST itself but just that it's a self-help movement aimed at ordinary people of leisure. Not lazy people, but people living stable, modern lives. It's answering the same need to be doing something real as the FBI, KGB and the church. But it's doing it through something other than action--it's just kind of looking at things differently. (Though apparently many people would come out of the seminars and change their life to be more active in significant things.) I wonder how Stan came to go to EST-did he think of it or did Philip even suggest it? Obviously Stan filled him in on the importance of EST to Sandra.
There was a real vibe with Stan for me like he was the boy next door whose parents worked a lot so he liked it when Philip invited him over for his mom's brownies. Elizabeth had that indulgent air to her, Stan was kind of puppy-dog happy to be in their house.
Yet I note his conversations with Philip still often involve Philip carefully trying to say what he thinks Stan needs to hear. Not that we saw much of them.
Love Gabriel. That was really fantastic. It's so blatant that Elizabeth gets tapes from home and Philip...doesn't. Special rules for Elizabeth because she's the teacher's pet? Or is Philip especially isolated? Or do some do and some don't get tapes?
My favorite Gabriel moment was his shoving Philip in the face like he was a child. That one gesture really implied a very different Philip than we ever really get to see that Gabriel might be uniquely able to draw out.
Frankly, the Centre often seems really clueless in handling Philip. If Elizabeth has told them he's at risk for US temptations why on earth not work on solidifying *his* ties to the motherland instead of seeming to always preferring to do that with Elizabeth who doesn't need it? I know they can't give him a tape from his mom if he doesn't have one, but this seems part ofa pattern. Somebody just tuning in might think Elizabeth was Russian and Philip her American partner or something.
I also love the idea of Philip liking Scrabble, a vocabulary game that he's playing in his second language. One thing that Jae and I talked about after our set visit (no spoilers involved here) is how Philip is so often shown seeking out and soaking up information of many different types, often in the background. There is a subtle mirror to Henry there, who seems to have the same impulses. Paige is also interested in learning things, but she seems more like Elizabeth in wanting to designate what's important or what's worth learning and having less respect for other things. Like they're a bit more like hawks and P&H are more like magpies.:-)
Also a little parallel to Stan's lonely boy liking parental attention he doesn't get in the form of Scrabble.
Interesting that they chose to put those two Philip sex scenes in the show. They weren't really necessary, but I don't think they were just gratuitous either. I suspect that with Martha they're laying the groundwork for sex not being enough--she's going to need more emotional presence from Clark, plus he's not giving her children. Sex =/= intimacy.
Like Jae, I was impressed by poor Anneleise and the change in her. But I liked that she was also really exactly the same person. Early on she randomly demanded that Scott at least pretend to want to run away with her to Sweden. Of course Yousef won her over when he offered the idea himself. In the end she was always looking for a guy who wanted to sweep her away because he loved her that much--she wanted Edward Cullen. Scott had long since failed to provide that, especially once he turned her on Yousef.
Also another "say what they want to hear" scene when Scott "admits" he's jealous about Yousef. Even then she was still primarily focused on feeling loved by a guy.
All the stuff about sexism was also interesting, especially since it was always more complicated than it seemed. We've got two important women characters introduced here, women with information and expertise that's valuable. We've got the CIA woman--I agree with Jae she was wonderfully drawn in just the one scene! But it's not always so simple. Loved Stan's casual "let your man do that" line along with Gabriel's "be a good American housewife and do the dishes" line--both of which bear no resemblance to the way P&E's marriage work.
Speaking of those lines, I think Stan's was more evidence of his awkwardness around women, like the only way he really knows how to act is to play that male role. Where as Gabriel's seemed much more manipulative, subtly injecting some Soviet superiority into the conversation specifically regarding Elizabeth's alleged reduced status (and therefore Paige's). Claudia hit the same note with her in S1.
Meanwhile he and Philip have a cute little exchange where he asks how Henry's hockey is (Russian sport) and Philip cheerfully says he's concentrating more on BASEBALL these days.
Here's what I feel starting off about the P/E arc here. Elizabeth is *way* more far along than I expected in her recruitment of Paige. I don't think she's completely lying to Philip about just spending time with her, but I think he's absolutely right when he thinks this whole process is what she herself wants. That's the part I think she hasn't dealt with yet. I think at this point she's seeing it in terms of practicality: these are their orders, and she's always been happier when orders or responsibility coincide with what she wants but doesn't want to admit she wants ("they need to feel rooted."). Not that I think Philip's own motives aren't also a mixture of what's best for Paige and what he needs for himself, btw.
But it seems starting out that Elizabeth really considers this a done deal that will start without Philip and then he'll catch up. And that makes me think that she'll come to doubt her position--otherwise there's just no movement. I don't think it'll be a case of her deciding Philip is right--she'll be partly right too at least. But this seems like she's in such a strong place here, already humming along with Paige and with Gabriel and the Centre firmly in her corner, that she's got to be derailed internally. Philip's continued resistance may only be one factor here--I'm remembering S1 where he gave her what she wanted and then simply refused to undo it for her while continuing to be a partner/friend. I don't think we're going to get a complete rehash of that, but there's just nothing interesting about Elizabeth being "right" for 13 eps.
With Philip there's obvious potential conflict from other sources. Where Elizabeth is firmly allied with the Centre and Gabriel here--and possibly even Paige, who currently thinks Mom's come around and joined *her* cause as everyone should (I'm not reading a breakdown of Philip's relationship with Paige here, but that kitchen scene was clearly meant to leave him out church potluck funtimes and drive home to him how he's missed troop movements)--Philip is David to their Goliath here.
He's got no real practical way of keeping the Centre away from Paige, and he seems to have spent the last couple of months with the covers pulled over his head. But he wakes up fast and angry when Elizabeth casts a new light on her church activities. So it seems like there's another path laid out for Philip here. One that will also involve questioning of his opening position. Part of it will be fighting with Elizabeth, but it can't just be that, and it can't, imo, just be Philip being right but opposed for 13 eps any more than it can be with Elizabeth. I think they'll both evolve, but in slightly different ways.
It's not, after all, like Philip can't relate at all to some of Elizabeth's feelings. On one hand he doesn't want Paige to know who he really is--the murderer. But being happy with Paige thinking he's a kind of shallow, lazy travel agent wouldn't be a dream either, I imagine. Not when he sees what that really looks like to her. (Again, he may not realize just how things stand until he's confronted with it.)
No idea how they're going to keep Stan from figuring them out thanks to this injury. But he certainly has reason to *want* them to be innocent now, just as he did with Nina.
Loved Oleg and Arkady--including the stuff about his father. (I thought to myself "Oleg has officially far more backstory than Philip now!) I can see a man who didn't believe in favoritism pulling strings when Oleg felt it was important to his job and not for personal reasons. It also explains how Oleg is both a child of privilege and very competent and devoted. He's the rich kid with the dad who with holds approval. I love those!
Re: Sistermagpie first watch
Date: 2015-01-29 05:57 pm (UTC)Of course 'getting it' is a big EST thing: it's emperor's new clothes time and you have to, or you'll have wasted your money and have people say you're not really living. Stan and Philip are probably the only two in the room who have lived for an extended time with their lives in danger.
Re: Sistermagpie first watch
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From:Philip not getting tapes from home & Oleg's dad
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From:A few questions about things I didn't quite get
Date: 2015-01-29 05:37 pm (UTC)Also, did the episode just end with Philip confronting Yusuf and saying he could make all this 'go away', or was there something more?
Finally, have we seen the guy Elizabeth was giving how to tail people lessons to before?
Very good episode apart anyway. The series is back with a bang. I wonder if we'll see much reaction from the characters in the next episode to the death of Brezhnev?
Re: A few questions about things I didn't quite get
Date: 2015-01-29 05:51 pm (UTC)Re: A few questions about things I didn't quite get
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From:no subject
Date: 2015-01-29 08:58 pm (UTC)Does anyone think that Phillip's plan all along involve Annelise dying? I mean, I think his "this is a terrible thing" was not a lie - I think he does think that - but having it be part of a strategy anyway would not surprise me. Although realising he could use an accident to his advantage wouldn't be difficult to believe either. Hmm.
I love the humour - the cut from "at the news Brezhnev is dead" made me laugh inappropriately. (Also, nice way to say hey, Paige may be headed down a road of Communism but she clearly isn't there yet.)
The FBI are waaay more on the ball this time and holy crap, they've remembered the Illegal they were chasing before! Nicely done, show, you're not messing around.
I dunno what I think of Gabriel - I'm glad we finally met him, but his "hahah now be a good American wife and do the dishes", like Soviet wives didn't do almost all the bloody dishes too and like the end result of him saying that isn't still HER DOING DISHES, annoyed me. Even if the main point was the delivery of the tape, eh. Elizabeth asking the dudes if they want food, while again completely in character, also just made me sad because damn, woman just had a terrible near miss, must be in a lot of pain as well as sheer shock, and she's asking if she should make them something to eat.
The Beemans make me sad. Both of them.
MARTHA!!! Martha getting her Kama Sutra on was brilliant/hilarious, if only for Philip's 'omg' facial expressions. Also I love that Stan is helping her learn to shoot, and the fact that they wouldn't give us that scene if Martha weren't going to be using that skill in some kind of important and relevant way...
Oleg and Arkady: I liked the nod that wow, they speak much more openly than I understand real Soviets would have. Also, their relationship is weirdly endearing to me. I love that they both care about Nina. Also amused to see that dudes have been doing the spread-and-lean sitting pose since forever, apparently....
Basically, what a great opener! SO MUCH STUFF, PEOPLE. AAAH.
no subject
Date: 2015-01-29 10:49 pm (UTC)I certainly hope not. And it is very Philip to be ready to use anything that happens to his advantage.
I do wonder though if we'll see him ponder life and the universe like he did in S2 after every needless death.
I dunno what I think of Gabriel - I'm glad we finally met him, but his "hahah now be a good American wife and do the dishes", like Soviet wives didn't do almost all the bloody dishes too and like the end result of him saying that isn't still HER DOING DISHES, annoyed me.
I thought it was a weird line, and it was even weirder taking into account that Elizabeth is black and blue all over and should really have spent the entire episode in bed.
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From:Death and sex
Date: 2015-01-29 11:02 pm (UTC)Martha appears in two scenes, and she has both the gun and the sex, and in both cases, she was living the experience. It's not exactly almost getting killed, but she did get the gun for fear of almost getting killed.
ETA: And I completely forgot Annelise, who ended the episode with the full experience package. First having sex and then really having her life threatened.
Re: Death and sex
Date: 2015-01-29 11:24 pm (UTC)-J
Re: Death and sex
From:Apolla's Thoughts/Elizabeth's mom
Date: 2015-01-30 01:01 am (UTC)So I just sat there and thought, "Oh fuck," and if I missed a word, I just had to roll with it.
Basically what I got (I need to listen to it again, I've only listened to it once) is that her mom had blood work done/some problem with her blood and the doctor says there's nothing to do but wait.
I'll give it a few more listens and report back if anyone wants me to.
I can't believe how blatant Oleg is being. "We're not at home, we have to speak our minds to get the job done." NO, OLEG, NO!! Here you need to be SUPER careful!
Poor Paige and the pool :(
Poor Annelise :( :(
Elizabeth's tape from her mother: the Russian content
Date: 2015-01-30 01:30 am (UTC)-J
Wiki article
Date: 2015-01-30 10:28 am (UTC)If you want to add or change anything, feel free to update, or let me know and I'll do it.
Gabriel and the kids
Date: 2015-01-30 07:24 pm (UTC)I think the show has shown Elizabeth and Paige being pretty open to father figures and approval from authority. Zhukov was very much a father figure, and I recently read a review that casually described Gabriel, in their eyes (having presumably seen a few eps) as having a paternal relationship with both P&E...especially E. Especially Elizabeth, of course.
Many noticed back in S1 in the hitchhiker story that Paige was more trusting and Henry *very* not trusting. Even in his interview with Stan the "hero" he's less hero worshipping and more interested in his story--it's nothing like the way Paige interacts with, say, Pastor Tim. Philip, in the Gabriel scene, seems to appreciate Gabriel's overtures but also much more aware of Gabriel as a possible threat.
So the moment I thought of is about when Gabriel asks about the kids. Now, obviously the focus is going to be on Paige. Paige is the one they're there to talk about and they both understand that when he asks about her he wants details, he's not just being polite. So of course we're going to get a detailed description of Paige's life and of course Elizabeth is going to tell it. They don't care about Henry yet.
But it's cool that Philip's answer about Henry is so deflective. On the one hand it's funny that he's telling Gabriel that he's more interested in baseball now than hockey because ha ha, all American pastime so not a budding socialist. It's a polite brush off that clearly does not invite more questions. And this is pretty much Philip's pattern--he's not just on high alert because of the stuff with Paige. (If Philip lived in 2014 he would have no pictures of the kids on Facebook.)
It's just cool to see just how different their demeanor is even with this guy. Elizabeth is so much more comfortable and open, eager to be with someone she can be herself with. Philip's just guarded in a different way.
Pastor Tim the Matchmaker
Date: 2015-01-31 03:15 am (UTC)And I realized that in that moment, it's where Pastor Tim smiles at Elizabeth and she smiles back at him. At first watch it read as sort of ironic, like Pastor Tim's innocently smiling at her like they're on the same team and Elizabeth's smile is fake.
But in a way, Pastor Tim is subtly on Elizabeth's team in terms of being an adult who believes that teenagers ought to be nudged into the place they want to be or should be. His tiny manipulation, innocent as it seems, is also a guy watching stuff going on with Paige, approving of this boy as a partner, and throwing them together to move that forward.
It'll be interesting to see Philip's countermove to this, since his own hopes for Paige are more about choice than any specific road. I know one thing he'll be doing to advance his cause (not mentioning due to spoiler) and it's a nice little monkey wrench sort of thing. Something that could be said to stand for a lot of things, but I think is more just about throwing in static and unapologetic enjoyment of life without needing a purpose.
Re: Pastor Tim the Matchmaker
Date: 2015-01-31 02:56 pm (UTC)I guess you could argue Elizabeth's hopes are about choice as well, in that she wants to give Paige the option of joining the cause, whereas Philip wants to keep that option from her. I'd say that's as much about him thinking it's a bad option for her as thinking it could limit her choices.
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From:Brownies!
Date: 2015-01-31 03:27 pm (UTC)And Elizabeth bringing him one the next day at the travel agency was one of those small touches that shows what a different place they're in. Even with the disagreement about what to do about Paige, they're in a much stronger place in their marriage.
With Martha, I get a lot more out of the scenes like the one with Stan than the Kama Sutra one, which to me felt too much like the sex scenes she had in S1. I think it fit here because of the EST thing and how Philip could not be more completely disconnected from her than he is when he has to have sex with her, but I truly hope they stick more to S2 and making Martha a character who should be sympathized with, not just the butt of the joke, which is what scenes like that one, and S1, made me feel about her every single time a new crazy position came up.
I also liked Gabriel, but I feel like I want to see him expanded on more. Something about the way he easily melded into P/E's comfortable relationship where they are cozy with each other made it hard to adjust to the idea that he hasn't seen them since pre-pilot when Elizabeth was so cold towards Philip. Not that I didn't love the dynamic. Just came across as a little jossed.
Man, I wish they would use Henry more!
Loved the story arc with Elizabeth's mother and am curious to see if we'll get more of that.
Annelise going into that little deal about how Scott/the other guy both deserved someone better than her was an interesting note. And then her confessing as if she really didn't understand how dangerous he could be, how dangerous all of them were, equally sad.
Re: Brownies!
Date: 2015-01-31 06:21 pm (UTC)I had had that same thought about Gabriel dealing with their new relationship, but maybe it's not a big deal to him. I mean, they've always been a united front as partners, and they're not being particularly united in this scene. It's probably just like old times with Elizabeth eagerly showing that she's done her homework and is on board with everything and Philip hanging back and in this case stewing about something.
The only thing that would probably different between having this convo now and with their relationship S1 would be that Elizabeth is softer about judging Philip for his reluctance. Back then she'd probably just report that he's a problem and maybe needs to be dealt with--and maybe they'd give her the job of manipulating him. Now she's covering for him a bit, but Gabriel seems to know that and Philip's openly sharing his doubts so it amounts to the same thing. Gabriel will presumably meet with Elizabeth about the "Philip problem," and he'll be nice about it--as he probably would have been in the past since a) there's nothing good to come of telling Elizabeth to consider Philip the enemy and b) he probably values Philip as an agent and doesn't see anything good out of openly declaring war on him.
So new closeness between them probably wouldn't bother him, especially since they're talking about their kids and they've probably always been most united on that front. That's always been an area where they're cozier with each other.
I think we'll definitely see more about Elizabeth's mother. Gabriel's no doubt hoping to use that to make her more committed to the project as well--which may backfire eventually if she really starts thinking about it.
I really wish they would use Henry more too. I don't want some big storyline about Henry having a crush on somebody just for the sake of giving him something to do--I would love to have him be a stealth player in the family dynamics, though. He's a very different person than Paige is and everything going on with her is going to happen to him to, potentially. He's not that much younger.
Re: Brownies!
From:possible spoilers about E's mother's storyline
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