Season one group rewatch: "Only You"

[jae]

This is the discussion post for "Only You" (episode #10) in the group rewatch of season one. When you rewatched the episode, was there anything you noticed that you didn't notice the first time (and any subsequent times) you saw it? What things about it did you perhaps view differently after having seen the later episodes?

You can expect spoilers for the entire first season in the comments. Feel free to join in even if you didn't get a chance to watch the episodes that preceded it!

Comments

[jae]

This is only the third time I'd seen this one, believe it or not. Here's the stuff that was new for me this time around, or which I looked at a little differently in light of the rest of the season:

As we all know, imagining what other people are feeling isn't exactly Elizabeth's strong suit. Which makes her "Don't replay it in your mind, what you could, would, or should have done differently" to Philip all the more generous, you know? She's clearly still angry at him, but when it comes to the work, she understands him so well, and she knows that's exactly what he would be doing when he feels like he's botched something work-related. There's no moment when she thinks about coming down on him about it despite their personal tensions.

For whatever reason, it felt really strange to see Stan's scene with Martha in the workplace! I guess I think of Martha as part of Philip and Elizabeth's world and Stan as the other side, but of course that's silly.

The first time I saw this episode, I remember being shocked that Gaad was going to let Stan get away with the murder of Vlad. I suppose it's equally shocking just how quickly I got accustomed to that idea, though--it felt completely ordinary to me this time.

When Stan informed Philip that his partner had been found dead tonight, it struck me that Philip might actually not have known until that point that the FBI guy he'd accidentally killed had been Stan's partner. Any thoughts on that?

I wonder whether Stan's "That's worser" line (ever the sloppy drunk) was ad-libbed, or in the script. :)

Once again I'm struck by how remarkably open Elizabeth is with her kids about her past and the way she was raised. This time it was: "Do you have any idea what my mother would have done if I'd talked to her like that? You get to dress how you want, use the phone, watch TV." She talks to them about that sort of thing like she talks to no one else. It makes me think about how it wouldn't be at all surprising if Paige started tweaking to some of the strange things she's said and done over the years.

Clearly tapping three times into the phone is a signal, but any thoughts on what it exactly means? "The worst has come to pass"? "Get out of there now"? "Meet me in that diner"?

This isn't exactly new, but once again I'm just so fascinated by how calm Gregory is about everything: the fact that he's in more danger now than he's ever been in his life, the fact that Elizabeth's finally broken up with Philip in the wake of everything, and ultimately the way he gets framed by the KGB (he even goes so far as to say that that was the smart thing to do!). That calm says so much about his character, I think.

Also, it really struck me this time that Gregory has a pretty nice apartment (though in a pretty plain part of town). He's taken a lot of care with it over the years, and bought a lot of nice things with the (undoubtedly considerable) salary he's been paid by the KGB.

Gregory's people work in both D.C. and Philly. It seems from "Gregory" that they're from Philly; does that jive with everyone else's impressions?

Given how things went in the finale, I actually genuinely believe that Claudia was sad to see Gregory killed. And she probably secretly was glad that he got the "hero's death" he wanted, though she'd have never admitted that to either Elizabeth or the Center.

What struck me most this time around about Gregory's suggestion that Elizabeth just leave everything behind and flee with her is how even he seems to think it's hopeless. Both the fact that he doesn't bring it up until the very last moment and the fact that he bolts immediately when she doesn't react the way he hopes she will makes it feel like a last-ditch effort that even he doesn't really expect will work.

Throughout this episode, I found myself very conscious of something I had read recently in a Margo Martindale interview. She mentioned that she always went back in after the factand dubbed in lines where she thought she didn't get Claudia's vowels exactly right (her native accent is Texan, and she tries to play Claudia with very precise, formal English).

I was a little startled that Sandra was still getting Stan to try and run away with her at this point. Very soon after this she's rejecting his every advance and refusing to go to the Caribbean with him. (Also, Sandra's reaction is an interesting mirror of Gregory trying to get Elizabeth to run away with him.)

What's the flag that Vlad's coffin is draped in? Anybody know?

Also not new, but I feel so bad for absolutely all of our people at the end. :( Absolutely no one feels good about how things went down, and so many of them are just so devastated.

Yep, still love this episode.

-J

[katiac]

Gregory's people work in both D.C. and Philly. It seems from "Gregory" that they're from Philly; does that jive with everyone else's impressions?

I wondered about that too. Like the driver's license was from DC, so it was clear he'd lived there and currently lives there. But then the comment in episode 3 suggests he's either based in Philly some of the time, or has guys there, or had lived there. For my head canon, I decided I would have Gregory have lived there for a period of time, but have moved to DC at some point before the pilot, simply because it's the best way I could make sense of why Philip would suggest they "put Gregory on it" in episode three. Plus, he and his team seemed so comfortable and familiar there that it just made sense he'd had some history there and that's why it made him a better choice to do that task than Philip and Elizabeth.

Also not new, but I feel so bad for absolutely all of our people at the end. :( Absolutely no one feels good about how things went down, and so many of them are just so devastated.

Yes, this. I can never watch this episode when I'm in a not-good place because it's so painful to watch. Every single person involved ends up being hurt in very personal, deeply cutting ways and there's really nothing that can make it better.

What struck me most this time around about Gregory's suggestion that Elizabeth just leave everything behind and flee with her is how even he seems to think it's hopeless. Both the fact that he doesn't bring it up until the very last moment and the fact that he bolts immediately when she doesn't react the way he hopes she will makes it feel like a last-ditch effort that even he doesn't really expect will work.

Yes. And the painful part to watch from his angle is just that he's given so much for Elizabeth, and even though I don't really see any basis for them as a viable couple in the present day, it's still so hurtful to watch those "wishful thinking" beliefs and rosy memory of a forbidden relationship they'd both clung to for a long time shattered. After everything he did for her, that it all hadn't been quite what he thought is just so painful. And then the mirrored situation with Elizabeth so dead convinced until the very end that he's going to want to go back to Moscow. It was necessary, I think, not to keep living the lie, and the show loves to illustrate those painful, ugly truths, but man, that was so hard. Especially watching Elizabeth break down and hold a gun to his chest... I got the impression their "relationship" had never had to deal with anything quite that real, that they'd probably never had a real like, gut-level disagreement before of the kind she's had to learn to deal with all the time with Philip. The way Elizabeth set up the affair and the distance would allow her to get what she wanted but never have to deal with those tough questions that could sour it by digging into sticky emotional places. And when he said, "It ain't up to you," and she's saying, "I can't let you,"... ouch. Ugly, ugly truths. So hard to watch.

And then strangely, it's Philip who I'm always most gutted for as I watch it because he's once again forced to stand there and watch something so painful play out with the woman he loves and just sit there, silenced, and not allowed to have a voice, which is why I think I always pity him so much more. Which is kind of strange, when you think about it, because he's not the one being killed. His former lover isn't going off to death and he's not the one who's being blindsided (at least here) by the fact that he's fooled himself into seeing what he wished was there. Just in terms of how the events play out, this is pretty okay for him in how the pieces move around on the chessboard. Gregory will be out of the picture for good. He got to prove once again he's always there for Elizabeth. Her fantasy world just got a reality check that she can't hide from any more.

But the fact that he's the only one who never really gets to vent any of that hurt just digs in. Gregory goads him in episode 3 and he just sits there and takes it. Elizabeth gets to explain her side and he can listen and understand. Because of their differences in personalities and ability to deal with emotions, she hasn't yet ever been able to really give that back to him in the same way, so it always comes across to me like he's not only being hurt like everyone else, but is the only one who never has that acknowledged.

And then at the end, to watch the other three Jennings together in the kitchen having spaghetti as a family while Phil is having cold pizza in a motel room is just so heartbreaking. Everyone is hurting but then that added piece of him being separated like his been exiled makes it that much more painful, and once again he's all alone and there's not even anyone else physically there for him to talk to, even if someone would/could listen.

[sistermagpie]

I got the impression their "relationship" had never had to deal with anything quite that real, that they'd probably never had a real like, gut-level disagreement before of the kind she's had to learn to deal with all the time with Philip.

It's almost like that's the real subject of the convo Philip and Grannie have with Elizabeth about his loyalty. When Elizabeth says he's loyal and Grannie says he's never really been tested--or Philip does, bringing up that now he's facing jail or the electric chair. Gregory flipping on the KGB is never a real fear for any of them it seems, but as a test of the relationship between Elizabeth and Gregory it's more pointed. The relationship has never been tested. And in the end both of them can accept that the job comes first, that it always came first because that was the basis for the relationship. But underneath both of them kind of would want more.

But the fact that he's the only one who never really gets to vent any of that hurt just digs in. Gregory goads him in episode 3 and he just sits there and takes it. Elizabeth gets to explain her side and he can listen and understand. Because of their differences in personalities and ability to deal with emotions, she hasn't yet ever been able to really give that back to him in the same way, so it always comes across to me like he's not only being hurt like everyone else, but is the only one who never has that acknowledged.


Absolutely. He's like the shadow of this ep. And the thing with Elizabeth and Gregory is that as painful as what they're going through is, this is a pain they can both get into. It makes sense, it's acknowledged by everyone as the heroic tragedy they've signed up for. With Philip not only is he not part of any of the grieving processes going on (the FBI and Stan have one too), his feelings are discounted subtly by a lot of people too.

[katiac]

<Absolutely. He's like the shadow of this ep. And the thing with Elizabeth and Gregory is that as painful as what they're going through is, this is a pain they can both get into. It makes sense, it's acknowledged by everyone as the heroic tragedy they've signed up for. With Philip not only is he not part of any of the grieving processes going on (the FBI and Stan have one too), his feelings are discounted subtly by a lot of people too.

Yes, this. Like, Elizabeth gets her last night to express feelings in whatever way she chooses to, which admittedly, I don't picture being much different from how it used to be. Like I don't imagine she starts telling Gregory about her father or that her name is Nadezhda, but she gets to say goodbye to him and give the relationship they had for a long time one last send-off. She's got the KGB acknowledging how helpful Gregory was, even though it's clear they don't know about the affair. She's even got Grannie being sympathetic with her, telling Philip how he was Elizabeth's 1st agent and she doesn't want Elizabeth to have to kill him. And then on top of all that, she's got Philip ready to push his own feelings aside and give her whatever she needs. So for a girl who has "no one she can talk to" she sure does have a lot of sympathy in her corner. Even Gregory isn't blaming her, even though probably he should a little.

And then there's poor Philip who has to watch all of this unfold, is treated like he shouldn't even have feelings about it, certainly not any feelings to be sympathized with, and even after, just gets to go back to the lumpy bed with pizza and a hockey game on while Elizabeth has a cozy dinner with the kids. Though I love the lighting in the house in that last scene... it's your typical 80's dinner scene with homemade spaghetti and mom and the kids, but the room is very dark, a depressing story on the news, very much like Philip's dark, depressing hotel room where nothing about the separation is feeling good to any of them.

[sistermagpie]

Yes, it's one of the great things they do with Elizabeth the way she's somebody who always feels personally isolated, or is quick to feel that way so she pushes others away, and yet she draws people to her. (She's a bit like Batman!) Everyone respects her feelings here and nobody pulls a fast one on her. Philip, were he petty or spiteful, could even have told Claudia about the affair, but he naturally keeps that a secret. Not because it would necessarily get Elizabeth in trouble (I'm sure she's allowed to sleep with whoever she wants--but it might imply she wasn't objective), but because he naturally understands this is private and respects it.

And Philip is just such an afterthought to everyone in the situation. Claudia we know doesn't like or respect him the way she does Elizabeth. Gregory wants him to stay away from Elizabeth. Elizabeth has him standing by to assist her romantic tragedy with someone else. Even Stan shows up for sympathy from Philip over Amador. Obviously Stan has no way of knowing Philip has any feelings about that at all and hey, Philip killed the guy so he can hardly complain. But it's still yet another example of somebody in the ep coming to Philip for something while he has no one to go to. The one scene that isn't like that is Elizabeth reassuring him about what happened with Amador, but even that was followed by her saying the motel wasn't so bad.

The kids are the only people really in his corner, though even they, being kids, are sticking with Mom physically by default.

[jae]

But then the comment in episode 3 suggests he's either based in Philly some of the time, or has guys there, or had lived there.

*nods* What makes me think that at least his team is from Philly is the fact that during the time the FBI is pursuing Gregory's guy, it's made clear that he knows those streets much better than Stan and co, and that's what's made it easy for them to get away. But I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean that Gregory himself is from Philly.

And then strangely, it's Philip who I'm always most gutted for as I watch it because he's once again forced to stand there and watch something so painful play out with the woman he loves and just sit there, silenced, and not allowed to have a voice, which is why I think I always pity him so much more.

Yeah, I get this. For me it's the very fact that we see things from both Gregory and Elizabeth's points of view (and even Claudia's!) during this episode but never from Philip's that forces me to keep thinking about how things would be for Philip at any given moment. I think it's fair that they told the story more from Gregory's and Elizabeth's perspectives, because it's of course their story, but so much would have been going on for Philip too, and his very lack of "a voice" puts me right in his head on subsequent rewatches.

-J

[katiac]

*nods* What makes me think that at least his team is from Philly is the fact that during the time the FBI is pursuing Gregory's guy, it's made clear that he knows those streets much better than Stan and co, and that's what's made it easy for them to get away. But I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean that Gregory himself is from Philly.

Right. Like lots of things could fit. I would probably lean towards assuming he'd lived there at least for a time, particularly if he was establishing a team, but I think it was left in such a way that many different possibilities could be perfectly within canon. I think the FBI file said Washington, right? But I suppose like lots of people, he could've grown up anywhere and migrated towards a bigger or more appealing city at 18. So really anything is possible.

[treonb]

When Stan informed Philip that his partner had been found dead tonight, it struck me that Philip might actually not have known until that point that the FBI guy he'd accidentally killed had been Stan's partner. Any thoughts on that?

I don't remember, didn't Philip see Amador at the party?


Clearly tapping three times into the phone is a signal, but any thoughts on what it exactly means? "The worst has come to pass"? "Get out of there now"? "Meet me in that diner"?

I thought it meant "we're facing disaster", since that's Gregory's first question. "How bad is it?"


I was a little startled that Sandra was still getting Stan to try and run away with her at this point. Very soon after this she's rejecting his every advance and refusing to go to the Caribbean with him. (Also, Sandra's reaction is an interesting mirror of Gregory trying to get Elizabeth to run away with him.)

That's what made me feel everybody wants out :-) But going to the Caribbean isn't really escaping, it's just a little break, and then he's back to the work she hates.

[katiac]

I would assume the three taps was some sort of emergency meeting signal and that if they had to call and use tapping rather than use whatever the normal method was, it was bad. I would think they would have several pre-arranged meeting places and that the number or pattern of taps or other sounds might indicate which one to use.

Philip passed Amador at the party. I could easily believe he knew Amador was his partner and I think it could've come from several different sources. Somehow they had a way to find out who Martha was at the FBI so they could target her as a source, so theoretically they could just as easily find out about Amador. Or it could've been as simple as Stan introducing his neighbors to his work buddies at the party. He hadn't met Elizabeth, but I'm assuming they came separately because of the separation anyway, so Philip easily could've been introduced. The way Elizabeth reacts to him in the previous episode kind of leads me to believe the latter.

[jae]

I don't remember, didn't Philip see Amador at the party?

They were both there (and he was staring at Elizabeth), but I think they were both avoiding interacting with him. You're right, though--they probably had identified who he was and what his role was in Stan's life.

-J

[sistermagpie]

Elizabeth is really great to Philip as a partner and I thought of that when Nina says that Stan lost "his partner" while she lost "her friend" as if a friend was a better thing. But really partners are sometimes the best of friends, or at least they fulfill that role. And that partnership role is there at the end too when Philip stands down at Elizabeth's request about Gregory, trusting her and knowing that she needs this. She can't even help but look back at him as she walks away, and Philip notices her doing that and looks back, rather than the other way around.

It makes me think about how it wouldn't be at all surprising if Paige started tweaking to some of the strange things she's said and done over the years.

Her speech in this ep sounds so harsh it wouldn't have been unbelievable at all for Paige to shoot back something like "What, were you raised in Russia or something?" Because that sort of strictness would have very easily been linked to Soviet Russia for a kid at that time.

It's still an interesting scene, because for all Elizabeth won't let Paige speak to her that way she clearly doesn't "win" in the situation because the real problem is how Paige sees things. Elizabeth actually could use a little support since she's unhappy too, but Paige just sticks with "you wanted it this way, so go ahead and enjoy it."

ETA: Oh, and I forgot, I also thought this was the first time he learned Chris was Stan's partner. He knew they worked together, but this being his partner makes it so much worse.

[katiac]

It's still an interesting scene, because for all Elizabeth won't let Paige speak to her that way she clearly doesn't "win" in the situation because the real problem is how Paige sees things. Elizabeth actually could use a little support since she's unhappy too, but Paige just sticks with "you wanted it this way, so go ahead and enjoy it."

And what's just so, SO great to me is the way Paige is such a little version of Elizabeth here. Elizabeth's mother saying, "You always insisted on truth," makes it sound like she had that trait from being a young girl, and here's Paige, who is so different from Elizabeth in the more superficial ways because of the way they were raised, but has hints of her personality in there all the same. Just like Elizabeth loves to throw little barbs in there earlier in the episode to Philip about, "You were the one who wanted to be his friend because of what a great source he would be?" Paige is keeping the blows coming and refusing to submit to this idea of everything being "for the best" without her dad there.

[sistermagpie]

And another thing that's funny is that when Elizabeth gets her little barb in to Philip about how "you're the one who wanted it this way" Philip, iirc, just kind of laughs bitterly at Elizabeth's 'I told you so.' Where as Elizabeth openly confronts Paige about not getting to speak to her like that.

And really, Philip's not looking so stupid in being friends with Stan. Sure, as he says, he couldn't pump the guy for leads in that situation but he's still getting private info on it.

[katiac]

Oh, sure, I agree. I think there's a little of her baiting him about the friendship with Stan similarly to how she covers for her real worries with everything else. She doesn't like the idea of them being close because of the danger of Stan getting too close to their secret. It probably also stings quite a bit that Phil can make friends with anyone, even an FBI agent, and she has such a hard time getting close even to her own kids. But of course, she's not going to admit any of that to Philip in their current state. Also, it had to just gut her the way the kids were being so obviously cold towards her and then running to Philip like he was a hero returning from war. Even if objectively, an outsider would probably judge Elizabeth as having a lot more people in her corner than Philip at the moment, to her it absolutely seems like she has no one she can talk to, as she says to Gregory later. Even those people who prefer her over Philip (Gregory, Grannie, Zhukov, the Centre) aren't really people she can confide in about personal problems, especially ones of the "soft" variety since that whole crowd other than Zhukov champions the hard, emotionless warrior version of her. Philip was kind of her only outlet for that and she's shut that down. So really, I think she was primed to pick a fight over anything in that moment.

And the other thing that's great to think about with the Beemans is that the Sandra/Elizabeth relationship could easily be just as productive. Elizabeth isn't even actively trying to be friends with Sandra, but Sandra is so in need of a friend that she keeps bridging Elizabeth's awkwardness. Elizabeth isn't even trying to pump her for information and Sandra keeps volunteering it, telling her about the marriage problems, later when they go out for drinks asking if she'd ever thought about cheating. Stan told Sandra about the set-up in "The Colonel" when he said, "This will all be over tomorrow." If Elizabeth even tried a little she could probably get quite a bit of information there.

[sistermagpie]

Also, it had to just gut her the way the kids were being so obviously cold towards her and then running to Philip like he was a hero returning from war.

Well, it is a very lumpy bed!

I had a similar thought with Sandra in the last ep, the way she's practically begging to be Elizabeth's friend. And I'm sure to Elizabeth it seems imperative that she really not be friends with this woman because it's dangerous. But you're right, she's so obviously a good source of information. Philip is right about Stan in that sense. He's gotten great intel that way--they learned about Hinkley, Philip's picked up on all sorts of stuff about the Beeman marriage (which is always going to be important for working the guy). I wouldn't be surprised if he figures out or is told that Stan's having an affair.

More importantly Stan's offering a lot of stuff about what bothers him and what makes him tick. When he's talking about motel rooms Philip is looking at him so intently it's like he's drinking it all in, not wanting to miss a thing the guy might be saying to him. Part of that's probably for protection, but it's also about understanding the guy. And Stan shows how important that is elsewhere when he recognizes Curtis. If you simply pay attention to things you figure them out, and lots of people have shown that on the show: Sandra noticed Philip leaving, Stan recognizes Curtis, Paige wonders about the rules of the house and the time spent in the laundry room. Philip and Elizabeth, of course, have both noted things about other people but Elizabeth does sometimes have to override her instinctive reaction to not wanting to know other people much.

[jae]

Her speech in this ep sounds so harsh it wouldn't have been unbelievable at all for Paige to shoot back something like "What, were you raised in Russia or something?"

She so could say that at some point.

He knew they worked together, but this being his partner makes it so much worse.

Right? Expecially since Philip is already kind of beating himself up for having killed him in the first place.

-J

[treonb]

Her speech in this ep sounds so harsh it wouldn't have been unbelievable at all for Paige to shoot back something like "What, were you raised in Russia or something?"

I've been thinking this over - I think it would sound way too random, and would require Paige to at least be somewhat suspicious in that direction. Unless it was somehow related to the conversation, like they saw something about it on TV.

Otherwise, I'd actually expected her more to say: Mom, we live in the EIGHTIES.

[sistermagpie]

I've been thinking this over - I think it would sound way too random, and would require Paige to at least be somewhat suspicious in that direction. Unless it was somehow related to the conversation, like they saw something about it on TV.

In my memory of the 80s Soviet Russia could be thrown in randomly into any discussion of an oppressively regimented existence. You would have always just seen something about it on TV because it was always there, not just on the news but in popular culture.

[katiac]

I think it would depend how it was done. They've kind of been hit or miss on the tongue in cheek references to the USSR or spying, like with Sandra's, "I wasn't spying, I promise," or Elizabeth's, "Just getting into space is a remarkable accomplishment." I could see Paige saying that, however, and not having overt suspicions simply because the USSR was kind of seen at the time as this big, oppressive, regimented place. Kids of the era even if they weren't old enough to get any sense of nuance with the politics would think of the Berlin Wall and all those people trapped by their government and associate it with being very oppressive. And of course, all teens want to exaggerate their suffering :).

[treonb]

What's the flag that Vlad's coffin is draped in?

Looks like the KGB Commander: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:USSR,_Flag_KGB_commander_1964.svg

[jae]

Ooh! Thanks for looking that up. :)

-J

[treonb]

I've forgotten what happens in this ep, so I was really struck by almost every scene: I loved how Elizabeth doesn't blame Philip, Stan coming to Philip and then Nina's talk with Stan, Elizabeth having to deal with the kids, Stan confessing to Sandra and then Elizabeth and Gregory and Philip at the end.

And assorted things that came to mind:

* Gaad says he knew Amador since he started, but isn't he new? Or is he just new as a boss?

* I wondered what Stan was thinking at the beginning - he already zipped up somebody in a body bag.

* Paige didn't ask about her grandmother

* Stan's interrogation - "if you do know.. if you don't know.." reminded me of Gregory's "If you love her" speech. and Elizabeth's 'the world's a shitty place' goes back to what Stan told Philip about living in the same hotel room. And in general everybody in this ep seemed to want out of their situation.

* Gregory think Elizabeth can really do everything, because that's how he sees her

[katiac]

Elizabeth having to deal with the kids

This is one of my favorite parts too because I love how even when Philip is just playing dead, Paige isn't letting Elizabeth skirt the truth. She's up in her face in a very Elizabeth-like way poking the issue, forcing it to keep coming up when Elizabeth is just hoping with enough time to "adjust to new routines" all the uncomfortable feelings are just going to fade away. And Henry too, to a lesser extent. In one way, he's kind of playing dead like Philip is right now. But in another, he's allowing some more passive-aggressive stuff to come into play, where Philip might be feeling that same anger and hurt at times but is taking more care to keep it in check and not let it come across as pressuring Elizabeth to do one thing or another. Like we see him not doing homework, not coming down on time, not putting the cereal bowl away, showing no emotion or affection to his mom, but rushing over to give his dad a big hug. He's pushing the truth a little bit too, just in a more subtle way.

Paige didn't ask about her grandmother

So curious to know what they've been told about their extended family and hoping that comes up next season. We know from the finale and Phil's line to Stan about, "Elizabeth is the only family she has left," that Elizabeth's side must be dead, so maybe there's been some sort of standard established about, "We don't talk about this subject with Mom. It upsets her," much like they were clearly trained from a young age that they weren't allowed to go to their parents' room in the night.

[treonb]

We know from the finale and Phil's line to Stan about, "Elizabeth is the only family she has left," that Elizabeth's side must be dead

That's what they're telling Stan. But it does make sense that that's what they'll tell the kids too, about both sides. Still, kids are curious, and these things come up in conversation with other kids. They had to have made up a complete story about what the grandparents were like, where they lived, what they did.

[katiac]

Yeah, like I think Philip would never say that to Stan and then leave the kids alone with him for a weekend unless that was the same cover story they'd always given the kids, you know? Because of course Stan is going to tell the kids P/E went to take care of Elizabeth's great aunt and then the kids are probably going to make some comments in response. If anything doesn't line up, they've now made Stan curious, and after him already being curious enough before to snoop through the garage, I think Philip wouldn't take that risk. I would think they'd even go so far as to have fake Christmas cards or maybe even little presents from the aunt over the years.

I had always assumed they'd tell the kids both sides were dead, but other people have brought up the fair point before that it starts to look suspicious, which I agree with, but then a single death record is a lot easier to fake and does a better job of not arousing curiosity than "you have a grandparent out there but we don't talk any more because of some juicy reason." I actually would find it completely fascinating if Paige started poking around more on that subject next season and they had to get deeper and deeper into the lies. I could see them as younger kids not really caring. It's not like not having a nuclear family member where you can see from daily interactions with friends that you've got something "missing" that other kids typically have and if they have a healthy, loving relationship with their parents, it might not even seem like a big deal until they got to this age and started thinking it was actually a little weird that statistically they could wind up with no relatives.

[katiac]

And another thought with Elizabeth and the kids, I really love the irony of somewhat sympathetic/hypocritical Elizabeth who is confronted by a sassy, in your face Paige, and tells her, "You do not get to talk to me like that." This is the same woman who looked right at her handler and said with absolutely no remorse, "I'm sorry I didn't kill you. That's my apology."

It's just so beautiful to me in that scene because of course, Paige is being a sassy teenager and Elizabeth has every right to discipline her for it, but on the flip side of that she's SO much like her mother in that scene, but Elizabeth can't even enjoy or recognize it because rather than being on her side kind of like Henry is with Philip, Paige is using all those Elizabeth-like qualities against her mother.

[jae]

Yeah, I think "since Gaad started" isn't that long ago, but it's also not, like, three months ago? Like, he's the new boss from Martha's perspective, but he's probably been there more than a year.

To Gregory, Elizabeth really has always been able to "do everything," so it's not surprising that he thinks she'll be able to get everyone out of this one.

-J

[sistermagpie]

On this rewatch parallels keep jumping out at me. Interesting how we see Martha genuinely grieving for Chris even though she’s in this “great” relationship with Clark. Sadly, the relationship with Clark is fake. And that makes me think about Philip who’s also in another triangle in this ep. It’s like both Elizabeth and Martha go back to their “true loves” in this ep now that the guy is gone/is going to be gone. In both cases Philip is the one that fades away—Gregory sees him as just Elizabeth’s cover. Clark’s fakeness is just all the more clear when we remember that Chris, as flawed as he was, had a real relationship with Martha.

God, I love the Philip/Stan scene. And he’s bringing beer to his motel just like Elizabeth will later! That’s the one perk to being Philip. People bring you beer.

And Stan sought Philip out too. I mean, he didn’t just use his proximity to talk to him. He wanted to talk to Philip. And he’s already drunk.

I love how you can see the wheels turning in Philip’s head. His mind must be running on many different tracks. On some level he’s always nervous at any encounter with Stan that he didn’t plan, he’s also got the Chris thing that just happened, and then he’s got the level where he’s Stan’s friend and concerned about him, then he’s wondering how he can work that to his advantage.

You can’t be married and not have secrets. Hee!

I just noticed that Philip’s “surprise appearance” is really about telling her about the deal at the FBI. It’s hilarious the way the cover and the real get mixed up in their marriage. He’s not actually just her ex playing games, but that’s still the result.

I love that Philip takes the lunches after Elizabeth tells him to clean the kitchen. Her orders are just not having the right effect this morning!

I love that Gregory’s pad has smooth jazz playing when you call.

Stan’s speech to the car guy is like what Philip or Elizabeth is thinking all the time. You may think you know who I am and what I will or won’t do in this situation, but you have no idea.

I’m very partial to Philip so it bugs me when Elizabeth says “You told me so” to Gregory. She says she has no one else to tell—Philip just has no one to tell. Elizabeth’s got the guy in love with her who’s only there when she needs him.

I’m kind of with the FBI on this one. I like it when they’re being competent—and Stan gets to look really good here. Nina’s right, he comes alive when he’s got a chance to bring someone to justice. Honestly, imagine if he’d been expected to just let these guys go free and watch them so he could get info? He’d go nuts!

::Sigh:: Why must there always be some poor topless black actress in scenes like this? Maybe the character is supposed to be naked and screaming for distraction on purpose.

Grannie looks like hell.

I like her description of how Moscow is a frightening prospect for someone who hasn’t seen the world. For all the sophistication Gregory has he’s really not international at all. Elizabeth claiming he’d like it there is really naïve. Good thing Philip’s there with a more realistic view!

Was it Kim Philby who wound up going to Moscow? And was miserable there?

Philip’s very coldly badass in his assessment of Gregory as a potential traitor. He doesn’t seem to really think of him as a potential traitor, but he does need to raise the issue.

Some people were surprised that Gregory would be offered Moscow and expected him to be killed, but it seems totally believable to me they’d offer him that.

As much as I love Nina’s final turn back to loyalty to Russia, I love Curtis flipping on Gregory once he finds out he’s been working for the Soviets. That’s another parallel. I can respect people turning on their own country for their own reasons, like Gregory, but most people have an instinctive attachment to their own country no matter how flawed it is.

I have to mention this—Curtis is a really interesting looking guy. Which is funny given the car guy starting out saying that all the mug shots looked the same to him.

There really is something fascinating about how Gregory’s working for Russia for years but can’t fathom living there. Elizabeth says that growing up in the US and turning on his country is braver than anything any of her comrades have done, but here we see that in a way what Philip and Elizabeth have done is braver—or at least harder in Gregory’s view.

I hadn’t remembered how Gregory’s “let’s just get out of here, you and me” is so genuine. This really is what he must have secretly thought could happen for all these years. And what’s interesting is that while he would no doubt think Elizabeth’s reason for not going is her job, and that is a big reason, the real reason it would be impossible is her family. It’s the flipside to Irina asking this of Misha in Duty & Honor.

Claudia kind of looks like Mrs. Potato Head. Is this the first time we hear her name? I honestly can’t remember.

“You tell him how lovely Moscow is in the spring?” is one of my favorite snarky!Philip lines. He sees where this is going.

Philip and Grannie don’t like each other and she doesn’t trust him—so it’s interesting that this is one of the only times she and Philip are the ones working together. It’s like she knows he’s the one to go to if you want to understand a)Americans and b) Traitors. I mean, she presumably doesn’t know about the Elizabeth/Gregory affair, she knows he’s Elizabeth’s agent, yet she immediately expects Philip to understand him more.

Nice headboard there, Beemans.

And now Sandra offers her own “let’s just run away” speech. I’ve lost count of how many there are in this season.

Heh. Gregory laughs at the idea that Claudia stood between him and the door, as if she could stop him if he wanted to leave. She had Philip waiting on the other side of that door, Gregory.

Gregory has accepted his death because he wanted to live for something and that’s it. Now he’s projecting that on Elizabeth doubly hard, seeing her, also, as someone who should only want to live for a cause. Not that he’s lying, exactly, but he’s got a lot of reasons to see her the way he does now.

And for his dying wish...don’t go back to that guy he doesn’t like.

And it seems Gregory, too, associates Philip with making Elizabeth weak. I suppose she’s vented to him too about Philip’s traitorous ways, but it’s interesting that after all this time he still warns her that it’s contagious.

In another episode of sucks to be Philip, Elizabeth gets to have sex with her boyfriend, see the kids, sleep on a firm mattress and then return for a passionate good-bye. Philip gets to sleep on his lumpy motel bed and then watch.

Elizabeth desperately tries to tell him how lovely Moscow is in the spring.

Yet again, Elizabeth faces somebody who won’t do what she says no matter how tough she is.

I love that Philip’s just accepted his new role as the guy who shoots people so Elizabeth doesn’t have to. Ironic in an ep where we hear all about the strength of Elizabeth and Gregory while neither of them is able to do something. Not that there aren’t plenty of things Philip can’t do, but he’s really not a weak person at all. And he’s more adaptable.

Plus the scene’s basically got Elizabeth begging for mercy for Gregory from Philip.

I have less respect for Gregory’s suicide by cop that requires bullets flying around and potentially hitting random people. If it was in his own neighborhood he might have ended up taking out a neighbor.

I like that Philip’s just in his room watching hockey. Elizabeth watches the news. Stan watches...a post-mortem photo of Gregory.

[jae]

Philip’s very coldly badass in his assessment of Gregory as a potential traitor. He doesn’t seem to really think of him as a potential traitor, but he does need to raise the issue.

I think he doesn't think Gregory would betray them as things currently stand, but I think it's fair to wonder how things might be different if he were captured by the FBI and threatened (or somehow made to believe Elizabeth had betrayed him).

Some people were surprised that Gregory would be offered Moscow and expected him to be killed, but it seems totally believable to me they’d offer him that.

Yeah, this doesn't surprise me, either. There probably would have been people in the Center who wanted him dead, but Claudia, who knew the extent of the work he'd done for them, would have intervened and made sure that option was presented.

There really is something fascinating about how Gregory’s working for Russia for years but can’t fathom living there.

I think that fits, though. He and Elizabeth were drawn together for ideological reasons originally, but each of them would of course have been thinking of their ideologies primarily in terms of how the policies that reflect those ideologies would look in their own countries. Gregory's a socialist, but to him it's all about making socialism happen in the U.S.

Now he’s projecting that on Elizabeth doubly hard, seeing her, also, as someone who should only want to live for a cause.

*nods* Because of course, that's exactly how she was back when they first met, before the kids were there (and before she had a romantic relationship with Philip).

-J

[sistermagpie]

I think he doesn't think Gregory would betray them as things currently stand, but I think it's fair to wonder how things might be different if he were captured by the FBI and threatened (or somehow made to believe Elizabeth had betrayed him).

Right--what's interesting about it is that on Philip's side this just never seems like jealousy or anything personal. He doesn't see Gregory as a traitor because he feels betrayed by the guy or is jealous of him. He really does seem to be offering an objective, fair view of the situation. When he says Gregory might be a danger if he's captured, he's not making a personal judgment of Gregory's weak character--at least that's not the way it came across to me at all. It was more just what he'd say about anyone in that situation.

I think that fits, though. He and Elizabeth were drawn together for ideological reasons originally, but each of them would of course have been thinking of their ideologies primarily in terms of how the policies that reflect those ideologies would look in their own countries. Gregory's a socialist, but to him it's all about making socialism happen in the U.S.

Oh, I totally buy it. I'd have had a harder time buying a Gregory who went to Moscow. Clearly this is a guy who's made his world and knows where he belongs and isn't at a time or mood to start a new life he's never wanted. But it's still interesting from his perspective that however much he sees this about bringing socialism to the US, he's doing it by working for a foreign government, which not all people with his goals would do. So I can't help but wonder what relationship he had in his head with Russia all those years. Especially since while he knew that Elizabeth and Philip (and now Grannie) are really Russian it must be hard to really think of them that way when he's always interacted with them as Americans. That would give a very skewed impression of what Russians were like if you not only only know Russians who live in America but know Russians trained to look, sound and act not Russian.

*nods* Because of course, that's exactly how she was back when they first met, before the kids were there (and before she had a romantic relationship with Philip).

It's really great the way the show subtly reminds us of this every time we see Gregory, just in terms of the way he is, where he lives etc. It's not that he's stuck in the past in an unhealthy way, but his life and habits probably aren't that different than they were in 1969. Not only that, but it's not clear if he has many close relationships since he's lying to his crew. Elizabeth's been changed more than anything by her relationships with Philip, Paige and Henry.

[katiac]

I’m very partial to Philip so it bugs me when Elizabeth says “You told me so” to Gregory. She says she has no one else to tell—Philip just has no one to tell. Elizabeth’s got the guy in love with her who’s only there when she needs him.

Right. And what's so especially great is this really is exactly how Elizabeth sees it. In her head, she's the big victim in all of this, the one without anywhere else to turn, the one who got cheated on and has her kids hating her guts and doesn't have anyone she can talk to about it... and all of that is true... but then there's another point of view to their marriage troubles too and she can't even grasp all the stuff Phil is going through--that he's exiled from his kids, that his wife is about to get close to her ex, that he made great lengths to forgive some indiscretions and then got kicked out of the house like all that effort to be understanding didn't make a lick of difference. It just sucks to be Phil. But of course "you told me so" is the perfect opening Gregory was hoping to hear and he immediately jumps on it.

Gregory has accepted his death because he wanted to live for something and that’s it. Now he’s projecting that on Elizabeth doubly hard, seeing her, also, as someone who should only want to live for a cause. Not that he’s lying, exactly, but he’s got a lot of reasons to see her the way he does now.

And for his dying wish...don’t go back to that guy he doesn’t like.

Yes, this. Because how incomprehensible would it be to live that way all those years, loving someone who only came around when they needed something from you (whether it was affection or help on a mission) but never let you get close enough that you could ask for something in return or ever hope for an honest relationship? I'm sure Gregory had to pin all his hopes on the idea Elizabeth was just THAT dedicated to the cause, rather than that she was purposefully keeping parts of herself from him, not unlike the way Philip probably told himself Elizabeth was just cold/not particularly loving as a wife, rather than that she was sharing all these affections with another man. So the fantasy that they were really mutually in love even if Elizabeth wouldn't ever say it and it was only the mission keeping them apart had to be SO much less threatening to Gregory than the idea that she secretly was growing to cherish her kids and connect with parts of her cover life, including Philip as a spy partner and later more. There would be a whole lot pinned on him seeing it as just the job and a whole lot of potential pain blocking him from recognizing it as anything else.

Was always a little irked by the whole dying wish thing, even though they did keep in character. To me it always smacked as controlling just like in Ep 3. If his entire point is that Elizabeth is strong and capable, treating her like she can't be trusted to make her own decisions just, I guess, annoys me with the hypocrisy of it.

Ironic in an ep where we hear all about the strength of Elizabeth and Gregory while neither of them is able to do something. Not that there aren’t plenty of things Philip can’t do, but he’s really not a weak person at all. And he’s more adaptable.

Plus the scene’s basically got Elizabeth begging for mercy for Gregory from Philip.

Right, this. Because really, if Gregory wanted to do the selfless thing, he could've gone to Moscow and given Elizabeth that comfort he was alive. If Elizabeth wanted to do the "strong" thing, that was following orders. Instead, both are kind of slave to "soft" emotions. Philip is the only one who actually forces down his own feelings on the matter and does what Elizabeth needs no matter the risk it puts them in from the Centre or what he might've personally found satisfying. But, I do think they did a beautiful job keeping things in character and an even more impressive, subtle and SO consistent job portraying that relationship for what it was, showing how it was so passionate in the one way, but built off projection and what they both needed to see in another. Really the strongest secondary arc of the season. And it beautifully illustrates how much Elizabeth is changing.

Also, the more I watch Elizabeth in this episode, the one before it and the one after it, just from the way she keeps nodding to herself and making these statements about what they should do or what's best, it's like part of her recognizes she's been not quite on target about her ideas of strength and herself all these years, and those doubts are starting to bubble up so she's almost trying to convince herself of her original views in the hopes of tamping down that nagging feeling in her gut. Only in the flashbacks and later in Ep 12 do the more genuine, risky questions start to get a voice, "Would things have been different if we'd said vows?" "What does it mean to love someone?"

[sistermagpie]

Was always a little irked by the whole dying wish thing, even though they did keep in character. To me it always smacked as controlling just like in Ep 3. If his entire point is that Elizabeth is strong and capable, treating her like she can't be trusted to make her own decisions just, I guess, annoys me with the hypocrisy of it.

I feel like you really see in moments like that how alike Elizabeth and Gregory are and how it can make it difficult to disagree with them. Both of them define themselves as the person who's the most committed to the cause, and they do it the most in eps where they're the ones being the most unprofessional or distracted by their personal passions. The separation is all about Elizabeth's hurt regarding Philip and her attempts to protect herself, and gives her more distractions, not fewer.

Likewise it's hard to really buy Gregory's selfless reasons for acting simply jealous. Like when he tells Philip about his past with Elizabeth--it was easy to keep it secret when that made him feel close to Elizabeth, but now that he feels he's losing that it's suddenly time to tell him--for Elizabeth's sake. And then here with his instructions that Elizabeth should find herself another Gregory, somebody who will always keep him in her mind, who will be an imitation of him, while he frames her getting back with Philip as settling, betraying herself, basically suggests that he can't ever love her for herself. I don't think Gregory think of himself as being selfish at all--like Elizabeth, he'd never do something if it felt selfish. But it's hard to pretend his actions aren't just those of a guy who'd like Elizabeth to run away with him and is still haunted by the feeling that this Russian guy is the one she loves.

What's funny too is how Elizabeth, both here and in this ep, drags Philip into it. She not only can't kill Gregory herself (understandable) but she almost needs Philip's blessing to send him off into the street. I don't think that's just about fearing that Philip will shoot him and she can't stop him. Think back to her and Timoshev when she knew what she wanted to do. There she could just knock Philip out of the way. She could have pulled a gun on Philip and ordered him to let Gregory go or whatever. But it's more like she needs him to back her up and understand her like she always does when she goes against orders.

In the end both she and Gregory are playing at fantasies of having the power to change things and it's Philip who stands in for the greater power. But since it's Philip he'll be merciful. Like right up until the end Gregory intellectually sides with Claudia--she's doing the smart thing, she's a good guard dog, she's doing the right thing. Yet it's Philip's "weakness" they finally appeal to and need to keep their relationship intact.

Another reason "you told me so" bugs me is it implicitly agrees with Gregory's entire view of Philip and their marriage. It's not giving Philip much respect. I can't say Philip would never do the same to Elizabeth since he doesn't really have the chance, but he hasn't ever been like that with her. He could have bitched about her with Irina easily enough, since this was right when he was angry at her, but he didn't.

I love that Elizabeth keeps nodding to herself, telling everyone else this is all a good idea because it doesn't feel right.

[katiac]

Likewise it's hard to really buy Gregory's selfless reasons for acting simply jealous. Like when he tells Philip about his past with Elizabeth--it was easy to keep it secret when that made him feel close to Elizabeth, but now that he feels he's losing that it's suddenly time to tell him--for Elizabeth's sake. And then here with his instructions that Elizabeth should find herself another Gregory, somebody who will always keep him in her mind, who will be an imitation of him, while he frames her getting back with Philip as settling, betraying herself, basically suggests that he can't ever love her for herself. I don't think Gregory think of himself as being selfish at all--like Elizabeth, he'd never do something if it felt selfish. But it's hard to pretend his actions aren't just those of a guy who'd like Elizabeth to run away with him and is still haunted by the feeling that this Russian guy is the one she loves.

Oh, I agree with you there. I think Gregory is such a great darker version of Elizabeth in so many ways, and so like her in that he can always find a way to justify what he's doing to himself, even when it's plainly selfish or self-serving. Elizabeth does the same thing, always trying to cover what she needs with why it's better for the mission, or best for the kids if Philip moves back home.

And I love the way you phrased that with him telling Elizabeth a Philip-type can never really love her for herself. That's what Gregory was saying, and intending, although I think that inner voice of Elizabeth's that she kept shouting down had to be secretly hearing that Gregory was the one who could never love her for herself--or that she even deserved to be loved in that way, dismissing the idea that she was even allowed to have soft emotions, that she could even be allowed to love her kids or feel things. That wasn't what Gregory was intending, of course, and it's really kind of Elizabeth's own doing because she's kept that part of herself so carefully hidden from him. But it was so obvious by this point in the season how complex and multi-faceted Elizabeth had become, and how Gregory, although he was passionate about that one part of her, really didn't know the actual woman at all. Even the way she reacted to him in the couch scene was telling, she had to look away as soon as he tried to bring up Philip and the whole dying wish, still hiding even right before they were going to be together for the last time.

What's funny too is how Elizabeth, both here and in this ep, drags Philip into it. She not only can't kill Gregory herself (understandable) but she almost needs Philip's blessing to send him off into the street. I don't think that's just about fearing that Philip will shoot him and she can't stop him. Think back to her and Timoshev when she knew what she wanted to do. There she could just knock Philip out of the way. She could have pulled a gun on Philip and ordered him to let Gregory go or whatever. But it's more like she needs him to back her up and understand her like she always does when she goes against orders.

LOVE this analysis. And it really shows how much, even when they were separated, that they've grown to depend on one another and need that connection, even when it's not a romantic one.

Another reason "you told me so" bugs me is it implicitly agrees with Gregory's entire view of Philip and their marriage. It's not giving Philip much respect. I can't say Philip would never do the same to Elizabeth since he doesn't really have the chance, but he hasn't ever been like that with her. He could have bitched about her with Irina easily enough, since this was right when he was angry at her, but he didn't.

Yup. And I feel like Philip as a character trait just keeps stuff closer to the chest. I'm sure part of that is just his spy personality, whereas Elizabeth isn't really that great of a spy, but is an awesome zealot, if that makes sense (not knocking her spy skills, exactly, but she really comes at it from more of a perfectionist devoted angle versus being able to slink into any personality.) So he doesn't give away information when he doesn't have to, or except when he's really upset and you're seeing the real man behind the disguises like when he's upset about the affair, or the pain at being betrayed.

And that's an interesting (and great!) point that he doesn't open up with Irina about Elizabeth--clearly there wasn't that level of trust there. And interestingly, Elizabeth doesn't even throw Philip under the bus with Gregory. She doesn't tell him about the ONS with Irina, or anything personal about them, as it appeared she might've early on. It's just, "Philip moved out." It's like both of them are trying to get close enough to their exes to get a little comfort for the night, closure, or whatever they need, but neither are really trying to form intimacy in the same way that they do in every scene we see them together when the relationship with each other is "on." With Irina, Philip offered that he was married, had two kids, a boy and a girl. Nothing personal. Irina was the one gushing all the stuff about crying for him, missing him. Philip really never offered anything personal back. Even her, "Do you remember the last time we saw each other?" earned a pretty simple recounting of facts. Not how it made him feel, not that he'd missed her. And here, Elizabeth is laughing at times, clearly hurting at others, but she's not really giving up any piece of herself. Gregory is trying to get her to open up with telling her how she's strong, committed, stubborn, and her response is, "You really like those things?" rather than telling him how she's feeling or how she's hurt. Contrast that with the scenes with P/E where practically every "on" episode has little layers stripped away and truths shared. It's just a very different, more honest dynamic.

I also kind of saw the "You told me so" as yet another instance of Elizabeth trying to convince herself it was true (that Philip was a sneak she never should've trusted) so that she wouldn't have to face the more painful emotional issues: that he'd hurt her, that sometimes marriage could hurt, that some of her actions had led to him sleeping with Irina, that she'd never really been intimate with anyone before and she'd been living half-truths, which had to then feel so unsatisfying once she realized it, but the idea of real intimacy was so scary and painful that there was really no way out. So I just always read it as kind of pitiful or pathetic... Elizabeth being such an emotional disaster in that moment (and she was close to tears every time in the episode she tried to talk about Philip to Gregory) that she couldn't come near the truth with a ten foot pole, rather than that it represented any sort of truth.

I love that Elizabeth keeps nodding to herself, telling everyone else this is all a good idea because it doesn't feel right.

I just loved all the changes we got to witness in Elizabeth over the season. There's something frustrating in her hard-headedness at times, but also something so rewarding about seeing her genuinely come through these emotional revelations too. She's so emotionally stunted that it's like she's genuinely realizing all these things for the first time.

[sistermagpie]

I almost wonder if Gregory had any specific reaction to that last scene b/w Philip and Elizabeth, when she asks him to stand down and he does. Gregory's just spent a good part of his last days giving Elizabeth what he thinks is the most important piece of advice, which is not to trust this guy too much.

Then they're having their last scene and it's a standoff. Who knows where he thought it would have gone? And Philip walks in. Immediately Philip and Elizabeth are talking with each other and Elizabeth is defending Gregory's character to him, saying that she knows him and he'll do what he says.

Does Gregory see that as proof that he's done his job and made Elizabeth see that he is the one who really knows her, and that she's dictating those terms to Philip? Or does he notice that she's pretty comfortable explaining herself to Philip about how she feels and that Philip cares about her enough to do what she wants even though he'd have been fine killing him?

I'm inclined to think it's the former and that Gregory sees himself as being back at Elizabeth's side again against Philip. It's not his primary focus, of course, because he's about to die, but I feel like he misses the big moment between them that's pretty clear to the audience.

[katiac]

What I found most interesting in the last seconds was the way Elizabeth wouldn't even look at Gregory when he came over to kiss her on the forehead, and how Gregory tried to look at Philip for quite awhile while walking out the door, and Philip wouldn't raise his eyes. I was glad she wouldn't look at him, because I think that would've been cruel to Philip, who had just done such a selfless thing for her, but man, that had to sting a little, even if Gregory tried to explain it away. And then I think Philip both wouldn't want to start a fight or risk disrupting him going off to his death, and also had no reason to want to look at the guy, but it came across a little like Gregory was trying to get a read on him at the end. I dunno. And for him to hear Elizabeth so plainly appealing to Philip and their personal feelings with, "Please, Philip. I'm asking," just ouch. Wouldn't want to dig into that mentally because it's pretty obvious to the audience how much of a connection is still there.

And I think with Gregory, though eventually if he had more time he might've come to (sadly) understand what Philip really meant to Elizabeth and the connection and intimacy that was there, in that moment wasn't in a place where he wanted to see any of that, so he didn't let himself. And really, I don't even know if Gregory really has the depth of understanding Elizabeth to really *get* what Philip gives her that's so intimate and important to her. He clearly doesn't even understand what her kids mean to her, and the idea of Phil is that much more threatening. So I really don't think he can even comprehend that Elizabeth has all these fears/needs/emotions and parts of her that are soft and complex because he's simply never been allowed to see them. And that's all on Elizabeth who controlled the relationship just like she controls everything else.

Another really great thing about that last scene is that the sequencing of it so nicely mirrors how it all played out earlier in the season. It starts out with Elizabeth and Gregory there together, then Philip comes into the room. At first Elizabeth is arguing for Gregory, why they should do this for him, but by the end, it's all about her and Phil. They're even looking at each other past Gregory and talking about Gregory's outcome just like he's kind of inconsequential to the whole thing. And then he simply walks out the door, and metaphorically exits their relationship for good, leaving just the two of them and their issues looking at each other. It's just so nicely set up.

[sistermagpie]

Yes, it's one of those scenes where the symbolism comes so naturally, the way in the end it plays perfectly for both couples, with Elizabeth/Gregory being an ending and Philip/Elizabeth enduring. He wins the chance to leave with dignity on his own terms, but the two of them are left communicating with each other. It's got to be painful for Gregory, and I doubt he thought of it this way, but it's their relationship in microcosm. They joke together the night before, they have a romantic scene about how it's "only you" between them, Elizabeth sleeps with him even if she clearly didn't want to start up their relationship again, because she knows this is good-bye. Then things start breaking down because a lot of that was fantasy for the two of them, and Philip's entrance is perfectly timed because he's real life intruding. This is the guy who's always been her real life. And in fact their connection is so real that he doesn't enter into that fantasy situation at all. I mean, he doesn't come in to fight with Gregory because for all these years Gregory's seen Philip as a rival and Philip has never seen Gregory that way because the relationships were based on such different things. Even after he finds out about the affair there's some jealousy but it's not as central to the way he feels.

Which again calls back to the scene in the kitchen in Gregory. It's Gregory who so often sets up things between him and Philip because he's been denied little else than being the other man, the one who's the 'real' relationship that stands outside of the 'false' one she's forced to live by the Centre. But you're right, when Elizabeth says "It's me asking" that's maybe for the first time bringing the real P/E relationship there in front of him. Maybe for the first time there Philip's not the one who doesn't understand, or the one she didn't choose or the one forced on her. He's somebody she can appeal to just because it's her despite the fact that they're not even together.

I love what you pointed out about who they're looking at--I hadn't even noticed that but it's true. Gregory's a ghost by the end of the episode--and he's a ghost in ways that Philip or Elizabeth wouldn't be in the same situation. If Philip for some reason had to kill himself this way or whatever, Elizabeth would look him in the eye as he walked out. She just would. I couldn't imagine it otherwise. In fact, the two of them even share that look at the end. It can't be a mistake that they end with that look after both of them don't look at Gregory.

I like the idea that Gregory's trying to get a read on Philip at the end--that would make sense. And it makes even more sense, knowing Philip, that he doesn't get it. That's what both their big scenes are like, isn't it? And that again reminds me of how Gregory and Elizabeth are more alike. Elizabeth's always been so unsure of Philip as shifty and Gregory seems to see him the same way. When he asks if he loves Elizabeth Philip refuses to answer him. He kind of just goes blank just as he doesn't react to Gregory telling him the story and that probably makes Gregory very nervous--what does this guy want with Elizabeth? Is he just an empty guy who'll do whatever he wants in the moment? Like, who is he really? And in his last moments he's probably wondering similar things. Why is Philip letting me go? Is he madly in love with Elizabeth? Is he doing it to get on her side? Does he respect my choice here? Does he think I'm a fool? Does he think he won? Does he think he lost? But until the end he just gets nothing from Philip. He's probably spent at least a little time trying to figure the guy out over the years. He was probably happier when he could imagine him based on the worst things Elizabeth said about him, but at times like this he must have an inkling that he doesn't know the real guy at all. Plus I think you're right that he picks up on the fact that Elizabeth won't talk about him, that she turns away when he's mentioned. Obviously she hasn't just gone back to thinking of him as her cover.

[katiac]

Then things start breaking down because a lot of that was fantasy for the two of them, and Philip's entrance is perfectly timed because he's real life intruding. This is the guy who's always been her real life. And in fact their connection is so real that he doesn't enter into that fantasy situation at all.

Ooo... great connection. I just can't admire enough how well crafted the whole thing was, both to have the last night mirror what the affair had been all along, and also the way that they had it fall apart under its own weight at the end. It wasn't just that she chose Philip over Gregory, but rather that she had changed to the point that Philip or not, she had simply moved on from Gregory.

But you're right, when Elizabeth says "It's me asking" that's maybe for the first time bringing the real P/E relationship there in front of him. Maybe for the first time there Philip's not the one who doesn't understand, or the one she didn't choose or the one forced on her. He's somebody she can appeal to just because it's her despite the fact that they're not even together.

That's a good point. Like, I think he saw in the third episode when she reached for his hand, but even though Elizabeth had already dumped him (Gregory), she and Phil weren't yet in the same place. I'm guessing he would've been painted a picture over the years that didn't change much from where the affair started. Him being the one she really wanted and Phil being impossible would hit all the right buttons. Her stating how maybe things weren't so bad or being more neutral would naturally cause Gregory to start to get worried and ruin the fantasy-escape thing she could count on when she wanted it. So probably he had a pretty negative picture of Philip.

Then to be confronted with how they were even in their worst moment would have set off a few unsettling thoughts, I would guess. Because you're right. When Phil walks in, Gregory says, "Well, look who it is," or something like that. He has one more line about them owing him, but for the most part, from that point forward he's practically a decoration on the wall and it's all Philip and Elizabeth talking to each other over him, deciding what to do together about him. Even after seeing them together in the third episode it was so much more held back. That scene where Elizabeth is tearful and begging Philip to do it for her shows a whole different side of things.

And as a final thought, it had to if only subconsciously sting a little that Gregory and Elizabeth's last moment was them having a standoff where she had a gun pointed at his chest. Instead she turns to Philip and trusts he'll listen to her.

I love what you pointed out about who they're looking at--I hadn't even noticed that but it's true. Gregory's a ghost by the end of the episode--and he's a ghost in ways that Philip or Elizabeth wouldn't be in the same situation. If Philip for some reason had to kill himself this way or whatever, Elizabeth would look him in the eye as he walked out. She just would. I couldn't imagine it otherwise. In fact, the two of them even share that look at the end. It can't be a mistake that they end with that look after both of them don't look at Gregory.

Again, I just have to be impressed with how well this episode was crafted from so many angles. Every detail is so perfectly done.

I also kind of think Elizabeth would, in addition to not wanting to rub it in Phil's face after he made this huge gesture for her, not particularly want to open that can of worms with final goodbyes and what might be said by Gregory. She doesn't do well with emotions in the moment when she might have to do something. I would wonder if she was partially also worried about Gregory trying to make some gesture or say something and her then being put on the spot. She'd already several times in the episode tried to avoid talking about her feelings with him, and after what happened with Phil, that subject is even more painful. She grieved his death later in private before moving on, but was careful to do it in a way where it could be private, rather than her having to show what she's feeling which is so hard for her.

But until the end he just gets nothing from Philip. He's probably spent at least a little time trying to figure the guy out over the years. He was probably happier when he could imagine him based on the worst things Elizabeth said about him, but at times like this he must have an inkling that he doesn't know the real guy at all.

Yep. And as sorry as I feel for Phil in these scenes where he's all alone in the hotel room, or Elizabeth is pulling the ice queen thing, it occurs to me Gregory must've lived a lot of his life like that. From his reaction to Elizabeth in ep 3 it made it seem like it had been quite some time, months, since they'd seen each other. That had to eat at him to know she was home with Philip every night and would see him only sporadically, and for a short time at that. That's a lot of time to spend hung up on someone, only to find out a decade later that they've decided to make it work with their spouse. It's kind of his choosing too for electing to get involved in the situation, but it's still sad.

Plus I think you're right that he picks up on the fact that Elizabeth won't talk about him, that she turns away when he's mentioned. Obviously she hasn't just gone back to thinking of him as her cover.

Yup, agreed. They were very consistent with her reactions throughout this.

[sistermagpie]

I love that detail of pointing out that this is how they are *in their worst moment*. He knows the guy's moved out and yet they're completely solid even when Gregory sort of tries to pull Philip into something with his "look who it is."

I mean, I don't think he was trying to pick a huge fight there exactly, but that's a weird way to greet Philip in the situation that they all know they're in. Gregory just slept with Elizabeth again, he knows Philip's moved out, he knows Philip's there for the Centre, he's interrupted this big confrontation between them. And yet Philip completely doesn't push himself on anyone. He does give his opinions on what he doesn't think is a good idea but in his own way he asserts his connection to Elizabeth far more strongly than Gregory does simply by speaking to her instead of Gregory.

I also wonder if Gregory ever spent much time thinking about the Russian issue. Like, he jokes about "Russian girls" being tough, pointing out that he knows both she and Grannie are passing as American, but so is Philip, and I wonder if he knew, underneath, that that was a huge thing that Philip and Elizabeth shared. Especially in this ep where he's an America who doesn't want to leave America and they're both Russian and also people who were able to switch countries.

[katiac]

That's a good point with how that comment came across. It's interesting with Gregory because it's like he's not really trying to pick a fight... but then in a way he always IS from the first moment we meet him. And I'd guess he wasn't like that before, but as soon as the tables turned and Elizabeth dumped him, every interaction with Philip has been baiting a fight or trying to manipulate things when he's with Elizabeth. And Philip is just the opposite... he's actively working not to engage even when provoked, and with Elizabeth he's on the polar opposite end, instead of trying to pressure, completely taking the pressure off and letting her choose what she wants.

Like there's the kitchen scene in episode three where he tells Philip about the affair, which is just asking for it. And then later there's the line about Robert when there wasn't even a reason to go there: "Well, he had a wife and a secret baby in Philly. So I guess he didn't really trust you as a friend." Or whatever it was. And then the stuff in this episode.

And with Elizabeth, it's interesting because on the surface, he's kind of acting calm, but there's always this undercurrent of so much pressure and manipulation. She refuses a cigarette, says she's, "Trying to be good." He counters that it doesn't suit her. He tries again to get her to smoke pot, and she declines, which he follows with, "Makes you horny, right?" Even from the first moment she tries to tell him her feelings have changed and she doesn't want the affair any more, he's speaking to her almost in a voice like you would to a little kid, saying, "He's your cover," and later, "Your marriage ain't real. Your husband ain't real. None of this domestic shit of yours is real." And then of course, there's so much pressure put on her throughout this episode too. And it's not that he's a bad guy--I think he was just completely desperate, sickened by losing her, and realized he held none of the winning cards and Philip had all of them--but it's still interesting to watch because even when Elizabeth just ignores him, you would think she'd have to notice that here's the one guy trying to push her this way or that, and here's the other just stepping back and saying do whatever you want/need. That would be huge to her, especially given how much control is an issue for her and ironic in light of how her relationship with each man started. She felt Gregory was her "choice" and Philip was forced on her by the Centre. Now it's Gregory subtly applying pressure and Philip who's setting her free to make her own choices.

[sistermagpie]

Yes, when it started Gregory was the one that meant no pressure because she chose him, and he'd always accepted a situation where he was only there when she came to him. It was the most controlled relationship in the world and it also held the promise of her just leaving her fake husband and going to him.

But somehow over the years that changed and then Gregory in desperation was pulling all the influence he had to try to keep her. Meanwhile Philip finds himself in the odd position where the very thing that made him terrible--that he wasn't her choice--plays into Elizabeth and Gregory's story that they do everything for the cause. When their relationship was tested they'd already built up such a foundation of it being about loyalty to the party that they could hardly have run away together. I think Gregory would have been up for it, but Elizabeth had far more options. Plus in the end the cause gave her love, even if it didn't mean to do that. She would have stayed even without the cause because she wouldn't leave her family.

I do think Gregory from the time we meet him (which is after he gets dumped pretty much) is always trying to provoke some confrontation. Yet in a way he runs into the same kind of impossible resistance in a different form. With Elizabeth she set up all these boundaries about her loyalty that he couldn't get through. With Philip he just wouldn't be drawn into their story.

It's funny when you think that Gregory tells Elizabeth not to go back to him, that she should find somebody like him. Yet Philip one of the few people Elizabeth knows who's made the same commitment to the cause as she has. It just shows again how Gregory and Elizabeth use subterfuge to talk about feelings. The thing that's supposed to be wrong with Philip is that he's just her cover and not real. No matter what they've said to each other about his potential weakness, that was always the real attraction of Gregory.

[katiac]

Plus in the end the cause gave her love, even if it didn't mean to do that. She would have stayed even without the cause because she wouldn't leave her family.

One interesting thing I was contemplating about Elizabeth the other day (and Philip too) likened back to that article from the summer where they talked about the influence of the show on how marriage reshapes one's character. And really, both Elizabeth and Philip reshape each other in such healthy ways, where Gregory and Irina are really the harsher, uninfluenced version of themselves.

Elizabeth and her stark honesty is such a terrific, grounding force for Philip, who can be too slippery and can get himself into trouble with his lack of boundaries. We see that perfectly in Irina, who didn't seem to draw a personal line at lying to or manipulating a man she'd once loved, either in the past or the present. Philip screws up with the one lie, for sure, but in the way he recognizes his mistake and tries to apologize and be honest about the screw-up it's just so completely different from Irina's moral grayness where she's also busted about HER lie and instead of coming clean, leaves him with a non-answer about such a huge question she knows will eat at him.

And the same thing with how Philip influences Elizabeth. It's kind of funny because you could easily imagine that if Elizabeth wasn't forced to have children under orders, she'd probably not have them, but just would've stayed a soldier. And Gregory with his repeated statements devaluing family, and claiming readiness to sacrifice their (Elizabeth's) families for the cause, is probably very close to how she felt back then. So the Centre forcing her into having children inadvertently changed her, as did being married to Philip, and for the better, giving her that loving piece and other, softer side she never could've enjoyed with someone who sees her as just a soldier who wants to die for the cause. And when we're seeing Gregory at the end, asking Elizabeth to run off on her kids, that's really also the old Elizabeth who might've been tempted to do so, rather than the fuller, changed Elizabeth who's become more complex where he's just sort of stayed stuck in the 1960's.

It just shows again how Gregory and Elizabeth use subterfuge to talk about feelings. The thing that's supposed to be wrong with Philip is that he's just her cover and not real. No matter what they've said to each other about his potential weakness, that was always the real attraction of Gregory.

Can you elaborate on what you mean? This idea is fascinating to me.

[sistermagpie]

Irina is just so terrible! Okay, I don't know her well, but it's just like you said--the very fact that she'd lie to this guy she once allegedly cared about, and not even for much of a good reason that we can see. It's such a betrayal to lie about a child of all things. It's another reason for me to think that she doesn't have children, that she's yet another loyal soldier like Grannie or Gregory who don't really get it.

But once she does that it's like she takes away the original relationship too, at least I think she does. She'd already hurt him by saying she'd found someone else and now she's throwing up all these competing stories until there's nothing there at all. Gregory and Elizabeth, of course, never do that because they're the opposite. They don't want to lie to each other.

So it really is great that Irina pulls all that and then Philip still lies to Elizabeth and gets called on it right away and pays for it. Like you said, he needs that influence.

Can you elaborate on what you mean? This idea is fascinating to me.

I mean the way that it really seems like the biggest thing with Elizabeth and Gregory was that she chose him, that the two of them believed that they were made for each other, understood each other, were like each other. She says to Philip that she knows him--he always does what he says he's going to do (unlike you, Philip!), when he tells her to find someone who loves her strength it to me sounds like he's saying to find someone to love her for what she really is. (When Elizabeth jokes "you like that stuff?" there's some truth to it because her being a hardass does put a lot of people off.)

I feel like over the years, especially from Gregory's pov, it must have gotten more and more important that Philip was "the cover" and he was her real romance. And I just feel like that's what he really means when he's telling her not to settle for that relationship, not to get lost in her fake cover life, but to stay true to herself. That seems to always be the way he defines Philip. When he tells Philip about their affair that's what he talks about--she came to him horrified at having to "live this life", he tells her that without telling Philip about them it's basing their life on a lie, he corrects her when she calls Philip her husband by saying he's her cover, he thinks she's finally leaving the guy.

It just seems like when he's really seriously talking about this stuff it's not about how Philip isn't loyal enough to the cause (though presumably that's understood and it's the reason he can't appreciate her own commitment and therefore not her) it's that being with Philip means not being true to herself. He never just comes out and says that he needs to be her true love. Just like her, he always finds a way to work it into something that sounds larger than herself. She needs to be true to herself because herself is committed to a higher cause.

This is kind of the opposite of Philip who openly puts their relationship outside of the cause--that's something that's important to him, but his family comes first. When he talks about their relationship it's always strictly their relationship--he thinks she always wanted him to be someone else, he needs her to ask him to come home for her.

[katiac]

Irina is just so terrible! Okay, I don't know her well, but it's just like you said--the very fact that she'd lie to this guy she once allegedly cared about, and not even for much of a good reason that we can see. It's such a betrayal to lie about a child of all things. It's another reason for me to think that she doesn't have children, that she's yet another loyal soldier like Grannie or Gregory who don't really get it.

But once she does that it's like she takes away the original relationship too, at least I think she does. She'd already hurt him by saying she'd found someone else and now she's throwing up all these competing stories until there's nothing there at all.

That's kind of how I leaned too--that she'd made the whole thing up... we'll have to see if they ever decide to wrap up that loose end! And I completely agree with the concept that by lying either then or now, she's really sort of evaporated everything they used to have just like Gregory becomes a ghost who's really irrelevant by the end of this episode... he meant something deep and meaningful to the old Elizabeth, but to the one who's standing before him, it's just not the same. They're so out of touch and having all these misfires in expectations no matter how desperate they are to connect that last time like they used to because she's changed so drastically and no one wants to say that out loud. And Irina's one big draw was that she'd really chosen Mischa, rather than acted put out about it like Elizabeth, like he was never good enough, but then she really spoiled that nostalgic piece to it by treating him like he wasn't really that special after all. She'd lie to him like he was just any other guy. And also I think that she'd honey-trap him would be a huge breach of trust... it's like he never has to worry about that from Elizabeth who was so brutally honest all those years that she had zero feelings for him. He can trust her in a way he'll never be able to with Irina.

This is kind of the opposite of Philip who openly puts their relationship outside of the cause--that's something that's important to him, but his family comes first. When he talks about their relationship it's always strictly their relationship--he thinks she always wanted him to be someone else, he needs her to ask him to come home for her.

And it's funny since that's kind of Elizabeth's forbidden fruit that keeps popping up all season ever since things suddenly turned personal in the pilot. She keeps wanting that preferential treatment, but it's not something she's comfortable feeling or wants to acknowledge is true about her. It's the most taboo thing in the world to openly put something above loyalty to Moscow. And yet that's exactly what she keeps depending on Philip to do for her whether it's here or in the next episode in defying orders. Or in backing her up when she beats Grannie. Or in being able to trust that if they're in trouble like in the meeting with the Colonel, they can depend on each other to make getting their kids to safety the priority.

[sistermagpie]

I feel like the phantom son story is almost better just as a potential idea to get thrown out than the son himself. It's not like they could have the son show up in the US. I would, otoh, love to have a convo where Elizabeth, for instance, if she ever came into contact with Irina, maybe asked Philip about the story so that he could explain that he thought she was just lying and Elizabeth would understand how hurtful that would be. This is the father of her children, the guy she trusts almost more than herself with them. She might at first feel jealous at the prospect of another woman sharing that with him, but if she understood the situation she'd probably get very protective of Philip.

And it's funny since that's kind of Elizabeth's forbidden fruit that keeps popping up all season ever since things suddenly turned personal in the pilot.

Yeah, it's seriously explosive--no wonder they made it so central to the season about their romance. She's not only got a built-in reason for trying to push Philip away but that reason's directly against her own desires. Philip was tailor made to knock her socks off after a long time--like a sleeper agent he was embedded there next to her and won her over without her realizing it. Poor Gregory didn't stand a chance! She was so much more aware of how she felt about him and could pay attention to it. Gregory was always telling her they shared the devotion to the cause above all else. Philip's the one whispering "all for you" for years.

Which makes the title of this ep wonderfully ambiguous.

[katiac]

I feel like the phantom son story is almost better just as a potential idea to get thrown out than the son himself. It's not like they could have the son show up in the US. I would, otoh, love to have a convo where Elizabeth, for instance, if she ever came into contact with Irina, maybe asked Philip about the story so that he could explain that he thought she was just lying and Elizabeth would understand how hurtful that would be. This is the father of her children, the guy she trusts almost more than herself with them. She might at first feel jealous at the prospect of another woman sharing that with him, but if she understood the situation she'd probably get very protective of Philip.

It's just so great as a contrast because using the kids as pawns is just such an unthinkable thing for P/E to do that no matter how bad things are personally, they just don't even consider going there. They're completely united as parents, as partners who put the kids first, and very much linked in that worry for their kids and the future. At no time in the separation do we see either of them try to gain the kids on their side or turn them against the other parent. In fact, they're both actively defending the other parent. The idea that Irina could/would use that to manipulate would probably incense Elizabeth.

One of the saddest things about how the timing of the "pause button" turned out was that Philip had this huge, traumatic revelation and because of the separation couldn't turn to Elizabeth for support. And perhaps now has to be a little skittish about even bringing the subject up. I really hope they'll touch on that next season.

Philip was tailor made to knock her socks off after a long time--like a sleeper agent he was embedded there next to her and won her over without her realizing it. Poor Gregory didn't stand a chance! She was so much more aware of how she felt about him and could pay attention to it. Gregory was always telling her they shared the devotion to the cause above all else. Philip's the one whispering "all for you" for years.

Which makes the title of this ep wonderfully ambiguous.

Love the way your mind works!

[sistermagpie]

I was waiting for the train this morning and suddenly had another thought about Philip. ;-) I'll probably bring it up later but figured I'd pass it along.

I was thinking about how Philip so rarely says anything about himself, so when he does it ought to possibly be taken as more serious than it would be otherwise. The one time he really gives his view of how he feels is his description of what it was like when he and Elizabeth met, how she was disappointed and he could tell she wanted him to be somebody else, something he's apparently felt their whole marriage.

It suddenly occurred to me how being "somebody else" is pretty much what Philip does for a living. So here he's faced with the one person he can't do that with. Like it's not just that he can tell she doesn't want him, though that's not good, but he seems to also not be able to tell what it is that she is wants. Because if he could do that he might have, just out of habit, morphed into that person. He might have injected a little more performance into their relationship to make things go smoothly, leaving us with a far less honest relationship today.

But it seems like he couldn't do that, that his trailing off on how she wanted him to be "...somebody else"--said with frustration as if he wished he could just say "You wanted me to be some big hulking soldier with a fanatical communist gleam in his eye" or whatever adds to his confusion. Because he can't figure out how to play her or please her. He's left, it seems, just being himself. With another person he might have hidden himself even more.

I mean, there are some things that he does despite knowing she doesn't like them. Surely he can tell she's a true believer and that she doesn't like his enjoyment of malls etc. But it's possible that he got looser that way because he felt powerless to really be what she wanted. Like he says in the motel "Maybe you just don't find me attractive." It's freeing to just give up!

[katiac]

Like it's not just that he can tell she doesn't want him, though that's not good, but he seems to also not be able to tell what it is that she is wants. Because if he could do that he might have, just out of habit, morphed into that person.

And really, this IS kind of what he did in the moment he lied about Irina. It was that rare moment when Elizabeth was emotional and finally: giving. That's something she's never really been towards him... wanting him and their relationship enough to outwardly admit it. I mean, the guy completely screwed up by lying, but you have to sympathize with how hard it must've been to live with almost twenty years of rejection by that point. Finally Elizabeth flat out states what she wants and it's no longer a mystery: "I want it to be real. Do you think we could do that?" And it completely sucks because of the timing, but then he does exactly what you're saying--morphs into the guy who hadn't screwed up and made a mistake with his ex. And that one little lie completely destroys all trust because suddenly he's the pretender with her too, rather than their relationship being special.

He might have injected a little more performance into their relationship to make things go smoothly, leaving us with a far less honest relationship today.

Absolutely. Love these thoughts!

Because he can't figure out how to play her or please her. He's left, it seems, just being himself. With another person he might have hidden himself even more.

And that's such an addictive thing in a relationship. Being with someone who you can be completely real with, who sees all your bad points and still loves you. And sometimes it makes one easier to form if you've already been through all those bad things and they're still there. They explored that, of course, on a much deeper level by the end of the season as Philip and Elizabeth had to learn to love the real person, not just what they wished they were, but for someone like Philip who's always pretending, who's always having to lie, that would be the huge draw for him--someone who didn't just like "Scott" or "Clark" but who saw "Philip" and everything he did... and still wanted THAT guy. He would probably grow weary with how easy it was to act a part and get random women to fall for him. I mean, I think it might be a rush at first, and probably he would always enjoy being good at what he did, but I would think it would eventually get very tiring to always be loved for being someone you weren't and never for someone you were. It would be all the more tempting to want that with the one person who saw your flaws.

But it seems like he couldn't do that, that his trailing off on how she wanted him to be "...somebody else"--said with frustration as if he wished he could just say "You wanted me to be some big hulking soldier with a fanatical communist gleam in his eye" or whatever adds to his confusion.

And also I think he just had to be all but defeated by that point. Because really, the first half of the season was all about Philip getting to know the real Elizabeth, and deciding if he could forgive her "flaws" and love her just as she was. And he did, telling her he loved her for the first time even after the revelations about her affair and the reporting. He found a way to understand what drove her. And the second was really Elizabeth getting to know the real Philip, and everything in reverse. Because really, I don't see that his position on her really changed all that much between episodes 8 and 13. He was just kind of playing dead while she worked everything out in her head and decided for herself whether a real marriage with him was what she wanted. And at that moment where he says that line you quoted, he's coming right off having experienced them being closer than ever, Elizabeth finally giving herself for the first time, and him having accepted the real her, warts and all. That she so completely rejects the real "him" at the first time it's really shown to her (because the lying thing is an honest flaw and probably something of a tender spot) has to be all the more painful.

But it's possible that he got looser that way because he felt powerless to really be what she wanted. Like he says in the motel "Maybe you just don't find me attractive." It's freeing to just give up!

It's interesting to think about. Because they're just so tight lipped on Philip it's hard to know what's driving him. What's interesting to me is that on the one level, yeah, it does look like he kind of gave up, but then he's also NOT giving up in this other huge way--holding a torch for her all those years despite how he's getting just nothing back but constant rejection. Maybe that's the wrong way to say it because clearly he's getting "something" like there's some payoff or he wouldn't keep doing it, but that's a long time to continue loving someone who's made it clear they've always wished you were something else. Makes you wonder what sort of background would predispose him to fall for someone like that, and stick it out.

[jae]

From his reaction to Elizabeth in ep 3 it made it seem like it had been quite some time, months, since they'd seen each other. That had to eat at him to know she was home with Philip every night and would see him only sporadically, and for a short time at that.

I think it's clear from the way Gregory reacts to Elizabeth's announcement that "things are changing at home" back in episode 3 (Gregory says "you're finally leaving him" as if of course that's the only thing she could mean) that Gregory is okay with how things have been between them because he's convinced himself that Philip is just her cover and that he, Gregory, is Elizabeth's true relationship. Which is fair; for a time that was true, at least on the romantic level. But of course that's the very thing that makes her decision to pursue a relationship with Philip on this other level all the harder to take.

-J