Question of the week #61

[treonb]

In what language do you think Elizabeth and Philip dream?

You can expect spoilers for the entire first three seasons in the comments.

(There's no expiration date on these questions, so if you're reading this post months later and feel like jumping in, please do.)

Comments

[sistermagpie]

At this point? Definitely English. But there's probably the occasional Russian one or Russian words that pop up that's related to what they're dreaming about or what they're thinking/worrying about. They might sometimes even have some mixups, like a dream where they're getting orders in English and the kids speak Russian. (I assume that they do get/give communications in Russian so it's something they do use in a limited way in expected circumstances.)

Elizabeth's memory of learning of her father's desertion last season seemed to be thinking rather than dreaming, but if Philip continues his own personal EST development, asking himself who he actually is and what's real, unexpected intrusions of Russian bubbling up would make a lot of sense, even in dreams. They both flashback in whatever language they were speaking in the flashback, but the show could also play around with that if they did a dream. Like the dream is confusing because it's a memory of Russia but why is Uncle speaking English etc.?

Btw, can't remember if this ever came up here, but I read an article once talking about Vladmir Nabokov that mentioned him writing his memoirs. He wrote them in English, as he was in the US by then, and he also spoke French. But I guess when he went to translate them into Russian he quickly switched to just rewriting them rather than translating. The crazy thing, he said, was that he found himself having completely different memories, or remembering things different ways, when writing them in Russian.

All of which goes to say yeah, I imagine the violent break between Russian/English speaking in the Jennings lives seems like it would have interesting psychological potential that way. All the Russian spoken on the show has been from Elizabeth. (I mean all the Russian spoken within the timeframe--Philip spoke it in a flashback.) Philip has only understood or translated some of these lines. Elizabeth's Russian life is something she's thought about and talked about throughout the show, Philip's is more buried. He even comes across as more reluctant to say his name (doubly so when he's using it to tell Elizabeth the name of his alleged son).

[lovingboth]

Oh, overwhelmingly English.

I've asked several ex-pats what language they think and dream in, and for those who are fluent in the local language, it's that. Surround yourself and use a language, and you'll end up using it even when asleep.

The exceptions might be specific memories, but even there, they're often translated.

[jae]

I'd also agree that it's English. I suspect they both occasionally dream in Russian and wake up feeling disoriented, though (even if they can't remember the dream).

-J

[treonb]

I assume they mostly dream in English too, as all of their life experiences are in English nowadays.

The 'inspiration' for this question came from a song about a Spanish-speaker who immigrated to Israel and lives his life in Hebrew, but at night dreams in Spanish. That's when his true identity comes out.

Philip and Elizabeth are violently suppressing their identity (they don't even talk Russian when they're alone in bed), but they only want to become Americans on the outside. On the inside, they're proud Russians. I wonder how their subconscious deals with all that.

[theplatonicnonyeah]

It's definitely an interesting issue. How do people, who have to lead double lives cope with the compartmentalisation of everything? How much is the human brain capable of separating the core identity of someone in order to survive in an alien setting?

[sistermagpie]

This question's made me think of Philip in the pilot, when he was thinking of defecting. Because he described it as just becoming who they were pretending to be for real. It made sense at the time, but knowing Philip better now, it's not the reasonable thing it sounded like. Because he basically really was talking about spending his life in one of his identities as much as he could. Which I think says something about where he was mentally at that time.

That is, they've talked about Philip "evolving" during the series, and it seems like part of that might be him not just questioning whether what he's doing is helping, but reclaiming his whole identity rather than just escaping into a false one.

[treonb]

How can Philip reclaim his whole identity?

[sistermagpie]

For me it means him coming to understand himself as a whole, since his tendency seems to be to fragment and compartmentalize and repress things he doesn't need in that moment. (So for instance he just doesn't remember his childhood when it interferes with his current identity.)

For instance, I don't know exactly how EST works but it seems like part of being present and real involves knowing yourself, having more self-awareness. And that's not just knowing how you feel in the moment but knowing why you might feel a certain way. Remember, for instance, in S2 when Sandra got into EST and she was also in one scene drawing. She said what she was doing was called "soul retrieval" and it involved creating art to connect with the unconscious mind. She was connecting to parts of herself she'd lost as she played roles for others.

"Soul retrieval" sounds like a great concept for this show. Philip, in particular, has had multiple people ask "Who are you?" or multiple scenes where he's looking in the mirror as if asking that question. So to me the idea of reclaiming your whole identity is knowing the answer to "Who are you?" in a way that incorporates all those different selves.

It seems like the thing that really kicked that off for both of them was making the marriage "real." Because Philip seems to be, in the pilot, satisfied with the trappings of the marriage, but when it becomes real he has to deal with Elizabeth in a more complicated way, and be more revealing about himself. It's not just "becoming" Philip and Elizabeth, it's peeling back a lot of layers of experience.

Does that make sense? I feel like I sound like an EST teacher!

[treonb]

Yes, it makes sense. I'm not sure how much Philip is capable of that, though. From the little we know, he's been like that even when he was young.

I think the pilot is a tough episode to draw conclusions from. I know it's canon, but it seems like the show didn't have its chars fully fleshed at that point. Or maybe just decided to go a different path later.

off topic

[(Anonymous)]

http://ru-klukva-ru.livejournal.com/1603842.html