Question of the week #60

[treonb]

Elizabeth and Philip would like to see a Communist America.  Stan would like Sandra back.  But would it really make them happy if they succeeded?  What do you think will make our characters feel happy and fulfilled?

You can expect spoilers for the entire first three seasons in the comments.

(There's no expiration date on these questions, so if you're reading this post months later and feel like jumping in, please do.)

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Stan doesn't want 'Sandra back' - he wants to be in the position he thought he was, with a loving wife happy for him to go off making the country safe whenever he wanted. He doesn't want the woman Sandra (now?) is back.

Philip and Elizabeth? Yes, I think it would.

[(Anonymous)]

That's funny, I don't think that P&E would want Communist America or at least not copy of Soviet Union. In the beginning sure but I think that that would be more because they didn't think about it that way.

Now it is more about equilibrium. I think that they care about status quo. Sure they are criticizing USA government and would like to see more socialist approach but they are also criticising Moscow. Something in lines of small changes being better than tsunami one. And I think that they realize that to have communist America there would have to be full scale war.

So my take on it is that they would like to destroy the fear of communism which is common in American minds.

[treonb]

I think they do actually want a Communist America. At the moment, it might be more about protecting the USSR, due to political issues, but I think that's the overall goal.

I just don't see Philip convincing himself that killing is worth it if he's just fighting against the fear of Communism. He's talking about a major goal that would be worth all the struggle.

[lovingboth]

They can see that US capitalism has some good points, but they see all of its bad ones. 'Obviously' communist countries are friendly with each other, so success would also lead to world peace etc etc.

[lovingboth]

(That was me - I must have been logged out)

[sistermagpie]

I think like all people they'd be happy for a moment and then find more things to be worried about. It seems especially that it would be hard for people like Philip and Elizabeth to feel normal without purpose. Elizabeth feels like she'd immediately find other things to focus on and fight for. For Philip I think it would be less about him doing that and more about him realizing that his feelings of isolation and alienation from self is not just about his job. Iow, they'd all still be themselves.

And Stan seems like he keeps searching for external solutions to his own inner problems. Whether it's Nina or Sandra, neither's going to make him feel like the man he should be. Nor is getting a big win on his job.

So pretty much all the characters would need some kind of therapy--or something that works like therapy--to be happy. They'd need probably more self-awareness that they're all really lacking at the moment.

[quantumreality]

I think as Philip and Elizabeth may hazily remember the 1960s Soviet Union, they would want to see that replicated in the USA.

The thing is, even if that did happen I think they would come to realize it was a horrible mistake because unless gifted with incomparably competent leadership, a Communist USA would fall victim to the same problems that befell Brezhnev-era USSR: 'playing it safe', allowing corruption to enter the ranks, and tolerating enormous economic inefficiencies as the price for keeping a society stable and maintaining a police state into the bargain.

It's kind of ironic that Philip masqueraded as a Swedish spy, considering the Swedes are pretty much renowned for mixing together capitalism with the decidedly socialistic aspects of the welfare state.

As for Stan, I think he wants the *idea* of Sandra back - the wife and 2.5 kids idyllic 'verse that outwardly, to him, should therefore also mean inward mental peace for him.

[treonb]

It's kind of ironic that Philip masqueraded as a Swedish spy, considering the Swedes are pretty much renowned for mixing together capitalism with the decidedly socialistic aspects of the welfare state.

Why is it ironic? Do you think Philip would prefer the Swedish model?

[quantumreality]

I think more because the kind of socialism with a human face that actually works is embodied in the Scandinavian welfare state, while the Soviet model had serious problems for several reasons - that said, Philip doesn't seem to have seriously considered this sort of "middle way" as an alternative to the essentially diametrically opposite models of economic management as embodied by the USA and the USSR.

[treonb]

The USSR and Sweden are not working off the same model. The USSR was not a failed Socialist state, it was a quite successful Communist country (I don't think any country has managed to implement the Communist model as described in theory).

If Philip would seriously consider a welfare state as an alternative, he might as well go through with his plan to defect.