theamericans | Question of the week #57

treonb posting in

What does Martha really think about Philip? How far would she be willing to go to protect herself, from both Philip and the FBI?

You can expect spoilers for the entire first three seasons in the comments.

(There's no expiration date on these questions, so if you're reading this post months later and feel like jumping in, please do.)

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From:

theplatonicnonyeah

This is a tough one.

I mean, obviously, she was willing to accept his "toupee" earlier. So a certain degree of deceit didn't seem to bother her. But this...this is so much more profound. She has done things - she has been made to do things, even! - far beyond her normal ideological boundaries. She has unwittingly become an accomplice and there is no turning back now.

I think she has two ways to go:
1. accept that she is now "a bad guy" and just go for it, accepting Clark/Philip for whoever he chooses to present himself as after the de-wigging.
2. play a double game and turn him in somehow, while perhaps sacrificing her own life.

From:

sistermagpie

I don't think she considered the toupee a deceit at all, probably. It would never occur to her that he was hiding darker hair under there. She probably thought the toupee was actually character-revealing.

From:

theplatonicnonyeah

I think you misunderstood, or I am bad at words... ;-)
I meant that a toupee in itself is a form of deceit, because it covers something up. Not because Martha thought it was deceitful.

From:

sistermagpie

I think I did misunderstand!

From: (Anonymous)

Pretty hard to answer this question as we don't know what happened between Martha and "Clark" after the de-wigging. That would give us a clue.

What did Clark/Phillip say to her? How did she react to his comments and his reveal? Then we might know how far she would go for him or to protect herself.

From:

sistermagpie

This is such a complex question--she's like another unexpected black hole of character motivations.

I feel like the scary thing about Clark for Martha is that it's not like she didn't *think* she knew this guy. There are certain things about him she believes to be true in terms of personality that are not true, and these are things that Philip is presumably still playing up for her--but who knows if those things will change.

Like I said above that she probably saw the toupee as something that was a soothing thing because it was a key to his personality: this was an uptight guy who always wanted to follow the rules, and that's why it's exciting that he's married her against the rules. The toupee says that even though this guy is a big nerd who doesn't really dress well, he's apparently embarrassed about losing his hair. That combination of things is something Martha would have thought about when thinking about her boyfriend/potential boyfriend.

I feel like it's stuff like that that's got to be scariest for her. Things that she thought were vulnerabilities are not. That's part of what makes the reveal scene so scary is she thinks this guy's probably older and trying to appear younger (or at least more virile) with his toupee and it turns out he's younger trying to appear older. And little does she know it but there's more where that comes from--the aggression she thinks she's bringing out in him in bed is actually a performance--yet he's hidden his real aggression from her completely.

So who does she think he really is? That's hard to say. She might not try to think about it much. She would probably make the connection that if Clark doesn't really look like that, neither does Jennifer, and they're probably not brother and sister. But I have a hard time believing that she's gone all the way to Russian Illegal if only because *everyone* has trouble going there. It's just really hard to know someone who presents as a local and then try to imagine them as a total foreigner. Guaranteed if the Jennings got caught they'd have neighbors who never believed it. That's why Paige asking her parents to speak Russian is important--she wants to see them speaking in tongues like the aliens they are. See the lizard faces!

As for how far she'd be willing to go, that's almost a separate issue that she doesn't know herself. And I think it'll be a step by step thing just like it's been up until now. She knew all along, whether she wanted to admit it, that she was doing something serious in bugging the office. I think she's going to allow Clark to convince her to go along with killing the IT guy. In fact, it was Martha who brought him up to Clark so underneath she's already protecting herself--but she's trying to distance herself from it by not saying it outright.

Since it seems like she didn't run away to her parents after Philip revealed himself, it seems like she's still very much motivated by wanting Clark. I mean, why stay just because you know what he looks like? That whole scene with Martha waiting to tell him in person she's leaving and saying "it's not enough" was kind of a demand for more intimacy. I think her bad boy attraction is very much at work here. She's not just the lonely spinster. She's somebody with genuine impulses for guys on the dark side and that's a big part of why she's sticking around. I think she'll even get to like it more.

From: (Anonymous)

I agree with SisterMagpie that Martha will now wonder about the whole fake family with Jennifer and Clark's mother. That could be fascinating drama.

Personally, I think she may be willing to go to any lengths to protect Clark and their relationship. She is a lonely, sad woman who found a man to bang her. But will "Clark" still be willing to bang her after the reveal?

From:

theplatonicnonyeah

"She is a lonely, sad woman who found a man to bang her."

Wow. That's harsh. I don't find her lonely or sad at all. Well, lonely only in the sense that she doesn't have a huge social life outside of work. But that always seemed more like self-containment than unwanted solitude. She's also not very sad in the sense of being desperate or clingy. She is sad in the original sense of having been deceived and lied to for so long, and feeling that she has nowhere else to go but back home.

I don't think she wants to "bang him", to be honest. She must be wondering what other parts of their life together has been a lie, including the sex.

From:

sistermagpie

Is there any reason Clark wouldn't be willing after the reveal? His whole presentation to her is that loves her, loves her enough to show her what he looks like. He's really just altered the lie a bit--instead of being the CIA employee who fell in love with her against orders now he's an employee of...other people...who fell in love with her against orders.

I don't actually think finding a guy was that difficult for Martha. She had two guys who wanted her in season one--Amador wanted her back.

From: (Anonymous)

Harsh? I think the sexual relationship with Clark is central to their relationship. Martha wants to be with him. Is it more than sexual? Yes, she would want an emotional relationship with him. But he doesn't really want an emotional relationship with her. Yet, he would like to protect her from the worst KGB outcomes?

As for Clark, he resists children and living together...she might be suspicious of who he is and what he wants. And, she might be suspicious of how much he wants to be with her emotionally. Martha, beware.

Still, Martha has a gun.

From:

theplatonicnonyeah

I was more objecting to the "lonely, sad woman who found a man to bang her"-trope than anything else in your comment. :-)

Of course she would want sex with him. Most people in what they believe is a healthy, loving relationship want to have sex with their partner. But the question now is if she trusts him enough to want to share that type of intimacy with him again. If he lied to her about who he really is, what's to say he didn't lie about everything else?

But indeed, the proverbial gun has not yet been properly fired...

From:

soupytwist

I think it's quite probable that MARTHA doesn't know the answer to that question right now! I think when she makes that call, we're going to see it. (Or at least I hope so. I'd be surprised if she's already done something specific on that front yet though.) I think the implications of the betrayal she's experienced are so massive that it's taking her a while to work through them. I mean, she's smart and she clearly understands that there ARE massive implications... but who would think of all the epic crazy awfulness at once? Not me, for sure.

I think, when it really comes to it, she's going to choose her country and her job (even if she no longer actually has that job!). And I think probably that line has already been crossed. I think now it's about when she figures that out/decides irrevocably.

From:

treonb

My answer is the same as with the previous question about Philip's view of Martha. I don't think she wants to think.

She really should have been suspicious from the start, but she didn't want to think then either, and now her world has been turned upside down. At the moment Philip is offering her something semi-stable: he's the same guy she always knew. She's been keeping his secret all along after all. Except he isn't the same guy and she knows it, and at some point it's all going to blow up.

At the moment she's not going very far at all in protecting herself from Philip. And having Philip kill for her, it might push her to confess, but it might keep her from talking too, since now she's implicated in the murder too.

From:

sistermagpie

The familiarity factor is probably stronger than we like to think, you know? Like you said, she's been doing this for a long time. I remember arguing with someone once about Martha and they basically felt like she never would have fallen for this guy's line because she wouldn't believe he'd be in love with her. Basically they were saying this is what they would have thought, so felt she should feel the same way.

But I was like well, we know plenty of people who fall for even more obvious cons, and the key thing here is that it happens one step at a time. If Martha hadn't excepted the 12 steps that led her to this point she wouldn't be at the point now. So she's been easing into this slowly and each time making the choice to go along with Clark. It's very normal to her now. When the truth came out this wasn't something that blindsided her completely.

From:

theplatonicnonyeah

I'm thinking Stockholm syndrome, actually. And also that normalisation of violence (or something else that goes against your original ideals). It's such a smooth transition Martha doesn't even notice it until she's already on the other side.

From:

sistermagpie

I think in Martha's case it's more that she justified it rather than didn't notice it. I mean, the secrecy and lying has always not only been part of the relationship it's been part of the appeal. Even in his original cover story Philip was somebody she was breaking the rules of security by seeing. And Martha's broken some rules without even being asked--like by bringing home the files. But yet when the bug was found she suddenly acted like she'd been caught doing something really scary bad.

From:

jae

I read all the interviews I can find, and so I think I've taken my cue on what to think of this from the actor who plays Martha. That doesn't mean they're 100% "right," of course, but I do think what she says is going on is likely to represent something close to what she's trying to achieve.

Anyway, I think she genuinely loves him. I also think she thinks he genuinely loves her, though she has doubts about that every once in a while. I think she tries very hard not to think too much about what he most likely is, but thoughts about that intrude frequently when she least wants them to. I think every time she's alone, she's afraid of what he might be doing, who he's doing it to, or that he might be dead. She's very afraid that he'll just never show up again someday, and she'll never know what happened to him.

I think it hasn't occurred to her yet that she might be in danger from him, but it's definitely occurred to her that he is in danger, and that she might also be in danger from whatever "dark forces" could be after him. If that ever changes, and she starts feeling that "Clark" himself is a danger to her, I think "protecting herself" might enter into the equation. But until then I think she'll be putting most of her energy into keeping her head above water and trying to maintain the fragile status quo.

-J

Edited Date: 2015-08-31 04:20 pm (UTC)

From:

sistermagpie

When she says she tries not to think about what he most likely is, does she know what that is? I mean, does she think he's an American working for...somebody? Does she actually think "Russian Illegal?" Or has she not allowed herself to even go far enough to consider either of those things?

Because I do tend to think that the leap to "Russian" is a really difficult one given how they present. Like even when he ripped off his Clark face, it wasn't an actual lizard underneath. He still looks and sounds and acts convincingly American to her.

But I'd be kind of fascinated if she ever got close enough for that to come out in the vaguest of ways, because you know she'd adjust to the idea and love the foreigner within.

From:

jae

I can't conceive of a scenario in which Martha could realistically have heard about Soviet illegals (her clearance isn't that high), so no, I didn't mean that. But she knows who the enemy is, and she's smart enough to put two and two together and realize that her husband must therefore be working for them. And if she had heard of Soviet illegals, her brain would definitely go there.

-J

From:

sistermagpie

It's funny--I agree with you about her not having clearance to hear about the Illegals but I swear people have argued with me that of course she would know about them. But yes, if she'd heard about them she'd probably have wondered about them even outside of Clark.

It's funny that thinking about the scene I thought again how scary that de-wigging scene is, despite the fact that I know what he looks like under there and it's only Philip. But then I thought...well, actually maybe it *isn't* Philip, because Philip is a persona constructed for a specific context and that context really doesn't exist with Martha. He's not revealing himself as "Philip Jennings" because most of Philip not only doesn't exist for Martha, he can't exist. So that really is a new person peeling off the wig there.

From:

jae

I love that last insight! It will be fascinating to see how he is with her going forward--he can't be Philip Jennings the full-fledged person/character, but maybe what he shows her will now be closer to that, at least.

-J