jae: (theamericansgecko)
[personal profile] jae posting in [community profile] theamericans
This is the discussion post for the pilot episode in the group rewatch of season one. When you rewatched the episode, was there anything you noticed that you didn't notice the first time (and any subsequent times) you saw it? What things about it did you perhaps view differently after having seen the later episodes?

You can expect spoilers for the entire first season in the comments.

So much better on rewatch!

Date: 2013-08-31 05:04 pm (UTC)
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)
From: [personal profile] sistermagpie
Yay!

So watching this again one thing that did stick out is I was paying attention to the convo between Philip and Robert in the beginning because I love it, and I noticed that Philip asked him if he followed the NHL. Watching it now I realized that some of my initial impressions/memories of that convo were off. I thought of it as Philip and Robert being friends and chatting before a mission, but really it's that Robert is far more nervous than Philip (which I'd noticed before but thought this was just the way he was and Philip knew that) and Philip is managing him by trying to distract him. His question about the NHL made me think they actually didn't know each other as well as I thought, which casts a different light on the later eps like Gregory. When Gregory says Robert wasn't really Philip's friend I thought it was a situation where Philip thought they were friends and might be hurt (or might not be) that Robert hadn't told him about his wife. But now I wonder if it's that Philip just more wanted Robert as a friend and wanted him to be that because he didn't often get to work with other agents. So he's meeting Stan after a failed attempt at connection with another guy and when he says Robert was his friend he knows they didn't really get a chance to be that.

Amador says in the pilot that the agents aren't allowed to speak a single word in Russian once they get here. And they never ever do, until Elizabeth speaks those last words in the finale.

Love that Elizabeth sort of scowls at Paige taking coffee and then Philip says, "What, no coffee for you?" to Henry.

Boot scoot. Still hilarious.

How has that sexual predator not been picked up yet?

So the scene in the kitchen where Philip comes onto Elizabeth--proof that they have a physical relationship outside of producing kids, but watching it now I think it plays as something that Philip is trying out rather than just a usual thing. That is, I assume that most of their encounters come from Philip giving it a shot and seeing if she'll go for it that time, but I hadn't remembered how his defection contemplation is all under the surface in this ep. So now I'm seeing it as he listens to the tape in the context of Elizabeth just having sex for her job, and then his later pass is trying out sex for affection/pleasure's sake with his "You're my wife" being less about possession/entitlement and more about the idea that they have this relationship that they can't enjoy.

Philip's theory that no FBI agent would be so stupid to to announce he's in counterintelligence, so Stan must be messing with him makes more sense than the truth. Honestly Stan, did you not read your orientation packet where it says not to tell people you're in espionage?

Again, Philip's arc in this ep is more subtle than I remembered it. I think originally it was clear that he was the one who was going to want to defect so I saw him wanting it early, but that's more about me knowing where it's going because it's fiction. But I think Philip himself is in a bit of denial about what he's thinking about until Stan's appearance gives him a practical reason for defecting (we're blown). He still seems to enjoy his work as a spy--it's not that making him want to defect. It's I think genuinely just wanting his family to be real. Watching his telling this to Elizabeth this time I think the whole thing is a metaphor for that--electricity works, food's pretty great etc. He's really asking if it's so bad being really married to him, like isn't there something real there. He's essentially doing what Elizabeth tries to do later, pretending "our family comes first" means doing it only for the children when it's more about what he wants. Though I do think he's also thinking of the children. Because if they're really blown this is the only way to keep the family together and I think in that scene he might honestly believe they are blown. Her response to that would be to go down protecting the mission by killing Timoshev--that's her priority, so she doesn't care about him.

Basically that whole scene is way more intense now that I know how much they depend on each other. I can see how Philip must seem to Elizabeth here, like a stranger, suddenly, who cares about money and the good life. And I think he knows that, which is why it's followed by his own flashback of their first meeting when that, as we know from later, is all about how she was always disappointed in him and he was never good enough.

Speaking of that meeting, during Zhukov's whole speech the main thing is Philip keeps looking at Elizabeth and Elizabeth keeps her eyes fastened on the Colonel. Nice symbolism. Before that Philip goes to shake her hand and she cuts him off just with her body language. Also he not only pours her tea he hands it to her, echoing the earlier scene where he holds out his coffee cup and she doesn't notice/isn't looking at him.

I think the reason Philip seems off to Stan is that he's conflicted (and scared) in this whole first ep. Once he commits to the KGB again, that's gone. He's scared in part because Stan is such a terrible spy, even telling Phil there's a "shitstorm" brewing at work. However, he is a great cop, noting the car and knowing just what Philip/Elizabeth the criminal (which is what they temporarily are while they have Timoshev) would do while they hide him.

So it's really a perfect set up at the end. Philip recommits to the KGB at the very moment he gets further proof that they are a flawed organization that doesn't always have the best interests of the people or their agents at heart. He kills Timoshev because he's the guy who hurt his family. And also maybe he now understands that before he kills him Elizabeth sees him as just another Timoshev hurting her for what he wants.

It's got to be a big deal to Elizabeth, too, to realize how much it effects her that Philip is loyal to her rather than the KGB since her belief about herself was always that she needed someone who shared her loyalty to the KGB. Gregory would never have considered defecting, but he also would have killed Timoshev as a traitor rather than for Elizabeth.

In the car afterward I think Philip must be pretty wary/defiant of Elizabeth's reaction because he knows he's shown his hand about his potential disloyalty as a KGB officer, yet he's unapologetic about his devotion to her. He's not quite sure of her motives and intentions for a long time after she starts kissing him. Or maybe ever. He's really watching her the whole time, like other times where she's confessing her feelings to him.

The costume colors change kind of wonderfully the next morning. Philip's in pale blue and Elizabeth's in sunny egg-yolk yellow. It's morning again in America!

Still love Sandra's theories about the mail man pimp.

Had briefly forgotten Philip's great hot dog attack. In the larger context it's another way of him to commit to things, make himself whole as spy!Philip. He's allowing himself to go against the rules to protect Paige rather than sticking with the Philip persona for anything other than KGB business. I think this might be a big change, so it's not just Elizabeth who starts adjusting post-pilot. Philip's learned important things about himself too, like what his real priorities are. That's probably a big thing for a slippery character like Philip. He's now trying to integrate what he's learned just as Elizabeth is.

God, I forgot even Zhukov is anti-Philip. Very big deal that Elizabeth vouches for him so dishonestly there (again, she's adjusting her loyalties/priorities).

I love it when P&E drink vodka or basically do anything Russian.

The only time Philip shows any physical affection to Elizabeth in the ep is where he's testing. In the hotel he claims he was just touching her hair because they're supposed to be married so they have to start doing that. Later he's kind of asking why they can't just have sex because they're married. It's interesting because I think of Philip as being so affectionate, yet every time he's affectionate with Elizabeth you can see him strategizing and pushing to see where her boundaries are. With the neck nuzzling (he's ready for the knife and making a conscious decision to keep going when she's told him to stop), the hair touching (seeing how she reacts) and the ice cream (genuinely apologizing when it's not charming and he's just annoyed her and feels foolish). In fact, the only spontaneous physical thing he does is when he goes to shake her hand back in Russia and is stopped short by her "Pleased to meet you." The physical connections that do work are Elizabeth reaching out--for sex in the car and for his hand in bed--and Philip carefully under-reacting and watching.

In short: brilliant ep that's deeper on rewatch and tells us a bit more about Philip than I realized.

Date: 2013-08-31 09:17 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] treonb
I found I got quite nitpicky on second viewing, but here goes:

- I loved how they had Tusk playing through the entire abduction sequence.

- Driving like crazy to make the hand-off was really stupid. They were really lucky not to have been caught, because any passing patrol car could have ruined the op.

- I loved the understated humor, already in the beginning: we've got Timoshev getting constantly kicked down, Philip sending Robert to the hospital with his 'you can deal with anything' spiel, and then missing the hand-off ("why is everyone so punctual in this business"). Then later on, moving from the basement (spying) to the house (family) - I love when they do that so naturally.

- Learning Russian - I wished they'd have continued with it. Also Stan's undercover job. He's the mirror of Philip/Elizabeth in that sense, but they didn't really build up on that.

- On first viewing I missed some of the 80s stuff, like Paige working on the typewriter. It's so cute :-) Also Elizabeth putting down the teacher, which I guess was becoming non-acceptable in the 80s.

- The two scenes, first with the ice-cream, where Elizabeth actually enjoys seeing Philip 'train' the kids (until it gets to her), and then Philip listening to the tape, where I think he's actually proud of Elizabeth.

- The defection idea - I didn't remember Elizabeth getting so upset about telling the kids. It seems like it's one of her greatest fears, even worse than betraying the Motherland.

- Elizabeth and Philip's meeting and first date

- I don't understand why Philip invited Stan down to the garage. They must have been some other way to do this. And shouldn't the rental have jumper cables?

- Elizabeth says she'll die before she betrays her country, and Philip repeats that when they're tortured by the KGB. I don't really understand how he flipped from wanting to defect to not saying a word while being tortured to death.

- During the Timoshev fight scene - He's been tied up for a couple of days, it's a wonder he can even walk, let alone fight. And Philip seems awfully dense in understanding what happened.

- Cleaning the car - I'd love some of that cleaning material. I have never managed to get stains out so nicely. And the audio's off, but that's really nitpicking.

As for Philip and Elizabeth - I can't say rewatching this really helped me understand their dynamic.

Date: 2013-09-01 01:47 am (UTC)
ext_445478: (Default)
From: [identity profile] apolla-savre.livejournal.com
The main thing that really stands out to me is the kids factor. It's obvious that the kids are one area where they both agree on - at least in terms of parenting styles. They've put a lot of effort into it ("We swore! We swore we would never tell them!"/"I'm not finished with them, they can be socialists -" "They will never be socialists.") The way they look at Henry when he's describing the science stuff at the end...that was so cute.

I disagree with people who say there there wasn't any physical contact/romance on anyone other than Philip's part. The ice cream Olympics suggested that they'd done playful things like that before and she'd participated. Holding the coffee cup out suggests that they'd filled each other's coffee before. At the beginning of their relationship, he backed off really quickly when she shut him down. This time he kept it up despite hearing her say "stop", so rather than reading "disinterested", I think he thought she meant "not in front of the kids" or "not now". Her behavior is off, in this episode, but we don't know that upon first watch because this is our first time seeing her. But having her rapist locked in her trunk is upsetting her, I think he was trying to console her, that they'd get orders, that the mission wasn't a failure. Obviously he didn't know Timoshev raped her.

The car scene was easier to understand the second time around, I thought it was two because I got Rob and Timoshev mixed up (I have really poor facial recognition skills).

I liked the Western stuff for Philip, it kind of ties into the cowboy "law in your own hands" nature that spies have, especially with no direction coming from the Rezidentura then. They had to decide what to do. Plus, they arrived in the 60s and Bonanza was on for 14 years in addition to other westerns. Cowboys are also pretty well known in Russia/the former USSR. When I was there, one of my fellow tourists wore a pair of cowboy boots and every single Russian checked them out and several women complimented them.

The fact that her name is Nadezhda makes me want to cry. It's Russian for "hope". (I also named my Russian blue cat Nadezhda for Elizabeth's character. I'm disappointed nobody calls her Nadya.) I also hate not knowing her father's name, not knowing a Russian's last name feels like not knowing someone's last name here in America.

Sandra's character doesn't do anything for me in the pilot, but she does grow on me.

The NHL thing, mentioned above, I think it was just an aspect they'd never talked about before. They probably only met when they had to do joint missions and they couldn't talk to each other regularly because of secrecy, sports wouldn't be something they'd be able to bond over since months probably went by before they heard from/saw one another again. And they can trust each other without knowing too much about each other - they were fellow spies, each was just as responsible for other's life.

The Garage scene

Date: 2015-04-07 03:02 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I would be very curious what everyone thought of the garage scene. Was there really a danger of P/E turning on each other?

It really feels like he is trying to sneak Timoshev out of the house and when Elisabeth shows up he feels threatened, especially after she gives her "I'm a KGB officer speech". You can see on Philip's face the implications - first the realization that she is completely inflexible on it, then a touch of fear that she'll tell the Center about it, which would be the end of him, then the realization that there is a whole other conflict going on that he was not aware of. He looks both horrified and confused as he sees E. beating up Timoshev.

And by the time she says "Do what you want with him" - he lets out a sigh, because he knows that he is given an out from a terrible misjudgement of her possible reaction to his "reasonable solution of defecting".

Do you think she would ever let him go through with his plan of taking Timoshev to Stan? - I thank there was no chance of that, she would have killed them both, and I think Philip clearly realizes this. This not to say that he doesn't kill Timoshev because he raped Elisabeth (he is clearly very emotional about it) ad wants to protect his wife, but that as an agent he also realized that that was his only call in that situation.

2. Another thing I like how they do the vodka scene back to back to the flashback of their arrival. In my reading it was significant for him that possibly he could reinterpret their history through this revelation - he always assumed that Elisabeth was not attracted to him, but after learning about the rape it becomes entirely plausible that the initial deflections of his attempts by her were really more rooted in the rape than in the lack of physical attraction.

3. I love the after-sex make-up scene - it is so cute and intimate.

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