Episode discussion post: "Lotus 1-2-3"

[jae]

Aired:
4 April 2017 in the U.S. and Canada

This is a discussion post for episode 505 of The Americans, intended for viewers who are watching the show on the U.S./Canadian schedule. (Feel free to dive in to the discussion even if you're coming in late--and you should also feel free to start a new thread if it seems too daunting to read through what's already been posted first. If you're reading this at a point where you've already seen subsequent episodes, though, please take care to keep comments spoiler-free of anything that comes after season five, episode five.)

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general review

[theplatonicnonyeah]

Sassy Stan is back! "We're certainly busy and irritated." Bahaha!

Basically, this episode centred around failures and success.

Henry excels in maths! (Also, hello, sexy maths teacher...) But he's still being absent and mysterious. What are we supposed to think about his role in all of this?

Mischa Jr makes it all the way to Washington, but Gabriel intercepts him. What will happen to him now? Will he really have to travel all the way home? For a second I thought he might go with Gabriel and they would have him "disappear".

Question to my fellow watchers: Does Claudia truly believe Mischa Jr is mentally ill, because he was sent to an institution? Or does she not know that opposition was sent there as punishment?

Elizabeth's realisation about Stobert (spelling?) was quite the rug puller for them. Poor Philip! He really thought they were finally doing the right thing again and that the killing in the lab was a necessary evil. Now all the weight is back on his shoulders. I wonder if Elizabeth's feelings for Stobert will change now, considering how "perfect" (as a man) he is in so many ways.

Now the ending, it felt very ominous for Tuan. What did Philip mean when he said he had told Tuan something? And when Elizabeth offered to take over (the task of killing Tuan?), he pointedly said "No, it's us".

I feel a discussion coming on regarding their views on what is "us" and where their loyalty stands, still to this day. Even as they have grown closer as a couple, does Elizabeth still feel stronger for The Cause than for them as a unit? Or does she truly not understand Philip's feelings for her?

I suppose, as in any relationship, there will always be a difference in how two people relate to each other and what they are willing to do for each other. It all depends on personality, ideals, past experiences.

Comic relief: Oleg being set up with three different suitable women. So. Very. Awkward.

Re: general review

[shapinglight]

Now the ending, it felt very ominous for Tuan. What did Philip mean when he said he had told Tuan something? And when Elizabeth offered to take over (the task of killing Tuan?)

I agree the scene felt ominous for Tuan. On the other hand, there's still an ongoing operation involving him, even if Philip and Elizabeth were wrong about the threat to the crops. The Centre will surely want the names of all those diplomats.

Re: Claudia thinking Mischa is mentally ill

[saraqael]

"Question to my fellow watchers: Does Claudia truly believe Mischa Jr is mentally ill, because he was sent to an institution? Or does she not know that opposition was sent there as punishment?"

Claudia knows that political dissidents were sent to mental institutions to hush them up. Whether or not she actually believes that Mischa, Jr. is mentally ill is an interesting question. To some extent, dissidents and reformers at that time were actually considered to be delusional. Classifying dissidents as mentally ill was both a cynical tool of the police state--of course they knew the dissidents were not really crazy--but also considered to be partly true--only someone who was delusional would become a dissident or a reformer. Claudia did say that she considered Mischa, Jr. to be unstable. I suspect that she mainly knew that he wasn't mentally ill, but at the same time since she was 100% devoted to the state, part of her did think that he was a little bit delusional.

I think that her bigger point wasn't about Mischa, Jr., though. It was about how Philip would react if he found out that his son had been sent to a psych ward simply for being a dissident. Claudia has not forgotten that Elizabeth reported that Philip was too soft and liked the US way of life too much. She may be fond of Philip, but I don't think she trusts him 100%. Philip might (and I stress might) be okay with the idea of sending political dissidents to the gulag as punishment, but not with the idea of sending them to mental institutions. That's going too far. Philip knows that voicing political dissent or calling for reform does not mean that you're crazy, it simply means that you want change.

I can see why Claudia and Gabriel would eventually both conclude that they must never allow Mischa, Jr. to speak to Philip. The risk that it would destabilize Philip's loyalty to the cause is too high.

Re: general review

[sistermagpie]

Question to my fellow watchers: Does Claudia truly believe Mischa Jr is mentally ill, because he was sent to an institution? Or does she not know that opposition was sent there as punishment?

I don't think she meant he was mentally ill even in what she said. As she explained, he's "unstable" meaning he does things that to her are irrational, and so does his mother. (So does his father, probably, in her view.)

Now the ending, it felt very ominous for Tuan. What did Philip mean when he said he had told Tuan something? And when Elizabeth offered to take over (the task of killing Tuan?), he pointedly said "No, it's us".

Philip was just saying that he told Tuan he'd go over there, but he trailed off because he was devastated about the news about the lab guy. Elizabeth was later offering to do any jobs that might require killing alone and he was saying no, she's not going to start doing his work for him. Nobody's planning on killing Tuan.

I continue to love how Tuan is such a believable mirror son for them. This one isn't bothered by the spying and is good at picking up on when mom and dad need to be alone.

Re: general review

[quantumreality]

I don't think they're set to kill Tuan. If anything I originally thought he'd sent Tuan on a quest to kill someone else and he needed to stop that bloodthirsty guy from doing it O_O

[shapinglight]

So much going on in this episode (as usual) that it's hard to dissect (well, for me).

I'm pretty sure that's not the last we've seen of Mischa Jnr. I can't believe he'll meekly allow himself to be sent back to the USSR. But the alternative seems to be that Claudia and Gabrial have him killed (which again, would seem like a waste of build-up - not to mention of having taken the trouble to find an actor who looks a little like a young Matthew Rhys), but would certainly be explosive plotwise when the truth came out, which it surely would. Claudia was definitely suggesting to Gabriel that's what they should do.

On the other hand, things do seem to be looking up a little for Oleg. The CIA have been warned off, plus his parents are trying to fix him up with a nice girl. Heh! Very funny/awkward scene.

Sistermagpie's First Thoughts on Lotus 1-2-3

[sistermagpie]

The eps this season seem to have so much stuff to set up. Man, they were all over the place here: NYC, Kansas, DC, Maryland, Moscow...

So checking in with everything, Oleg got a breather this week with that hilarious banquet with three girls on the menu. And it was a banquet. Here's everything they were eating according to the props guy: Pelmeni (dumplings)
Sour Cream
Pickles
Marinated Tomatoes
Pickled Cabbage
Black Bread
Khodolets (aspic)
Seledka (salted herring)
Sturgeon Lox
Black Caviar
Salad Olivie
And Vodka, of course.

Other meals in the ep included: Dee teaching Evgenia to cook whatever that was with tomato sauce, Philip and Paige sharing Chinese take-out leftovers (Henry didn't get to eat the fresh batch onscreen), Brad and Tuan sharing McDonalds and, of course, the Philip family and three hunks of black bread.

Stan's play seems to have worked but I honestly don't know why he still has a job, much less is able to snark at his boss and introduce Aderholdt to his new girlfriend. I liked how he's shoved her into the car with Matthew, too. There's just been this general shifting around of people this season as tends to happen in real life.

I was not happy to see EST return. It's like having different guys with weird hair show up like a Greek Chorus for Philip's feelings. With so much shoved in an episode I really want Philip to talk to actual people.

Glad they cleared up the wheat story and am now interested to see where it will go from here. I get the impression the honey traps are going to continue, as is the Morozov mission.

Paige's speech about why she was seeing Matthew was one of the most interesting things she's ever said to me. And it seems fitting she shared that with her father. Elizabeth tends to respond to her with easy answers ("everyone lies" "everyone holds something back")-or at least definitive ones. Philip just listens and has no answers. Still, there was echo of Pastor Tim's "you'd be surprised how many people think that."

But as with last week, you can really see a stark difference in the way she and Henry are spoken to too. Everyone tends to slip into a concerned, gentle way of speaking because she's so fragile--including her boyfriend. From Henry's pov it must be like living with some sickly Victorian Maiden who gets all this attention and praise while he gets snarked at and he has no idea why.

Of course, this is a good parallel to Paige. Paige and Elizabeth clash because they're so alike. Paige got her parents attention by shoving the church in their face and making them want to compete with it. Henry is in some ways at odds with Philip because they're so alike. Henry expresses his displeasure in passive-aggressive snark and Philip just snarks back because from his pov Henry's got it all. He gets to hang out and do what he wants and is often ignoring others in favor of Stan or a video game. And he's gotten their attention by *not* inviting them into his life, but making them curious.

Henry made a pretty clear gesture by referencing his parents thinking Paige is better than he is before pointedly going over to the computer, but Philip still doesn't get it, I don't think. He doesn't see how the whole dynamic with Paige is obvious even when they're not shut in a room with her alone.

But also I think there was an interesting distinction in Henry saying Paige was "the smart one." I don't think they ever thought Henry wasn't smart--they think he's lazy. He can be very focused at study, just not usually at school. Basically, in all situations like this I always see both sides as contributing something to the misunderstanding, even totally innocently.

Anyway, I really like it if they're making the Henry stuff about Paige--I mean, not entirely but that's the entry point--because that's the real problem here. People talk about P&E ignoring Henry etc. but it's not that they're not still doing all the basic things of taking care of him, he just feels like an outsider who's obviously not given the same attention as Paige. But he doesn't get how Paige made that happen and, of course, the downside to it.

Also it's probably one of those classic examples of giving the kid what you didn't have, and then they want something else. Presumably Philip, at least, thinks it's a good thing that Henry can just have fun in his life. He thinks he's succeeded in keeping him out of all this shit. But it also makes it hard to relate to him and both of them see that in different ways.

But Henry's still getting more than poor Mischa, who was really heartbreaking. That scene on the bench was fantastic, particular his little excited smile and fidget when he thought Philip was coming, followed by his disappointment, fear and despair when it all came to nothing (for now).

Also that was a fantastic use of limited English. The fact that Mischa had to struggle along, desperately trying to follow Gabriel's every word and then express himself in his stilted English made the whole thing more humiliating for him--and made him seem even more childlike. The lack of articles makes words that would come across as sharp and incisive coming from Oleg in Russian into something that sounds lost and primitive. (Like just compare it to the subtitled version. Mischa literally says "Where my father?" and then later "Forget father?" But the first line is subtitled correctly as "Where is my father?" The second isn't so it sounds primitive.) It was just wall upon wall in front of him. Oh, and I also liked how they showed him writing down the meeting place in Cyrillic.

Tuan, too, seems to want attention from his "parents", maybe especially his dad with the crazy mustache. He's the kid who's okay with the spy stuff, identifies with Philip's real self, and immediately senses when something's up with him.

Speaking of something being up with him WHAT IS UP WITH THOSE FLASHBACKS? I love that they seem to be making them an actual mystery, a la Spellbound. Or like a certain kind of TV movie-type thing from the 70s with repressed memories. I LOVED those!

So what to make of this? Philip himself has identified the pattern he sees in these flashbacks--which almost seem like PTSD given that they seem to come at him at unwanted times. Like, it's not like Elizabeth sitting back and thinking of her mother in a way that seems somewhat related to the plot. Philip himself seems puzzled and confused by them and doesn't understand what they mean. (He's also only 6 in them, so not old enough to probably have a clear understanding of everything.)

So he says he's remembering times his dad brought things home--pants in the first one, this time three hunks of black bread. The first flashback had a second kid in the scene, a kid that's never focused on but who hammers loudly throughout the scene. This time there's only the three of them and a focus on the three (one for each) hunks of bread.

Elizabeth asks him if it's a happy memory and he doesn't seem to think so--not that it's sad either, but it's understandable that she'd at first think that him remembering his dad bringing things home as something happy. Then she asks if he brought home anything else besides food and clothing...Philip doesn't remember. It seems like it's obviously leading up to or circling around something, but I don't know what. This would be happening close to his father's death given Philip's age. Is it related? Who knows? It's also winter in this one, since there's snow. And what happened to that other kid?

...did they eat him? ;-)

Re: Sistermagpie's First Thoughts on Lotus 1-2-3

[shapinglight]

...did they eat him? ;-)

I found myself wondering the same thing.

:Shudder:

Re: Sistermagpie's First Thoughts on Lotus 1-2-3

[saraqael]

Re - Philip's memories and EST: I like your description of EST serving as Greek Chorus for Philip's inner thoughts and feelings. I don't mind the EST sequences. I am fascinated by just how much Philip likes and needs these meetings. The EST meetings are bringing Philip face to face with his own inner thoughts and needs in a way that nothing else in his life could. For Philip, this is good and bad. Good as a man who has never been self-reflective, but bad for a man who is an undercover KGB offer. So far as Philip being able to talk to real people about it, he only has Elizabeth. I think he's getting better about talking to her about his thoughts and feelings. A couple of years ago, I doubt he would have confided in her that he's starting to remember fragmented memories of his childhood, or that he can't remember much about his childhood. Both of those are really intimate revelations. I think that the EST meetings are what is causing Philip's memories to become unblocked, and they are also why he even is able to find the words to communicate his feelings to her. EST was pure pop psychology, but for Philip it's the only psychological counseling/coaching he's ever received.

Re-Mischa Jr: Oh gosh, I felt so bad for him. Making him communicate in his limited English did make him sound much more childlike. I'm sure it also destroyed an attempt he may have been able to make to hide his emotions had he been able to communicate in his own language. I gotta say, this episode made me finally appreciate the character.

food and memories

[theplatonicnonyeah]

(I think Elizabeth was teaching Evgenia how to make moussaka, because they mentioned eggplant.)

For a moment it seemed to me that Philip's memory wasn't entirely accurate and that's why he replied that he didn't know if it was a happy memory. It was almost as if it was a dream-type memory. But wouldn't it be incredibly macabre if they ended up eating his soon-to-be-dead father? Although, I don't think it was unheard of back then.

Re: Sistermagpie's First Thoughts on Lotus 1-2-3

[nomilubin]

"It seems like it's obviously leading up to or circling around something, but I don't know what."

I could be totally wrong (of course!), but I keep feeling like Philip's father is going to kill himself.

soupytwist's thoughts

[soupytwist]

Elizabeth giving cooking advice is so weird. Like, it arguably shouldn't be, but I was there going "CREEPY".

Philip is the most miserable having sex omfg. What is with the flashbacks?! Telling Elizabeth all about it is good, but it has to be something big after all this lead up. I am concerned.

And also, WHO has sex and then is like, "you want to hear about this computer programme?" Like, I get being a nerd (hello, fellow internet journalling people) but that seems... pointed. Or excessive, even. Given the comments about Stan's girlfriend being KGB, it would be hilarious to me if actually it's Lotus 123 woman who's up to something!

(Also, Elizabeth being all "lol no" is hilarious to me. Especially since there really is something going on, apparently, though I do not feel at all confident I get WHAT.)

I love Henry and I felt bad for him. I think his being smart but not necessarily dedicated to schoolwork was done really well. Right down to Philip protesting that HE is good at maths.

Oh god Paige has similar problems to Philip and it's awful. How do you respond to that?! Philip listening seemed to be what she needed at that point, and I was impressed by how she addressed that with Matthew.It IS genuinely hard to be Paige! It makes total sense to me that Henry's just sort of got lost in all that, and the immediacy of the need to deal with Paige, and that he's not happy about it, though.

They're setting Oleg up with laaaaadies, he is having none of it. That was pretty funny. Oleg's right though, can't be doing with that.

Poor Mischa Jnr, his language difficulties are really believably done. Even Gabriel is feeling for him. I don't see this ending with him just getting shot or getting sent home though: it only makes narrative sense if it affects the Jennings somehow. They've got to find out about it. *braces self*

And ultimately, we end with the same conundrum they've always had: Philip is fundamentally not okay with the murdering. I think it's huge that he's explicitly discussing that with Elizabeth to even this extent, and also that he says right out that leaving the murdering to Elizabeth isn't an answer to the problem. Oh, Jennings. ♥

"Lotus 1-2-3", heh heh, nudge nudge, wink wink

[jae]

And also, WHO has sex and then is like, "you want to hear about this computer programme?"

I laughed out loud at this whole scene, but mostly because "Lotus 1-2-3" totally sounds like a sexual position (from one of those tantric sex books, maybe) anyway. ;)

-J

QR's Weekly Rambliew

[quantumreality]

- Whenever Peter Jacobson shows up I canNOT un-see him as Alan Snyder from Colony. His character there always works every angle to come upon the right side of the higher-ups and I can't help but see shades of that canniness in his Americans character as he explains to Stan what the plan is regarding all the Soviet trade agents.

- I get Clark vibes from Philip's latest fake romance adventure.

- Is Kid!Philip having literal rock cakes for supper???? :O

- Henry is a math whiz! \o/ And also teenage-ly laconic, too. :P And apparently has sibling-rivalry issues with Paige. Computers and skill at math have an overlap though, since both involve various reasoning skills, and computers can be programmed to do math as well.

- Philip wonders if Stan's gf is KGB.

- Back in the USSR, Oleg is all "That went well (-_-)" when they try questioning the guy at the food warehouse.

- Misha calls the answering service and freaks the lady out!

- Philip acting like such an all-American dad playing football was hilarious XD "BOOM!"

- Paige discusses Matthew. And gives us feels.

- I'm not sure if Gabriel knows the details of Mischa's travels, but if he does then the excessive caution re: Mischa leaving Yugoslavia makes sense, since it breaks his tracks in Slovenia until he pops up on the KGB's radar again in the US.

- OMFG wtf, Oleg's dad just set up speed dates with three well-connected hot women.

- Stan's new gf is being followed by Philip!

- Paige must be rubbing her finger and thumb full-time to center herself now. She's clearly manipulating Matthew instead of just ending things as she should.

- Philip's back in EST again!

- DUN DUN DUN Gabriel shows up and talks to Mischa!

- IDK what it is but Gabriel is acting rather Americanish in talking slowly with simple words to a foreigner. :P

- Awww. :( Mischa has a sad, and I have feels. "Not here." *Gabriel pats his heart*

- P & E look so relieved to see each other.

- So Stobert's in the clear. What about his bosses, who ultimately report to the US government?

- Tuan has a rakishly handsome smile.

- "It's us, Elizabeth." *FEELS*

Gabriel talking to Mischa

[treonb]

My impression was that he was talking slowly, but not using simple words, or at least, not the simplest words. Like "it's impossible" instead of "No, you cannot see him", which he does say at the end.

Treon's thoughts

[treonb]

1. When Stobert gave his explanation, I was wondering if it's the truth. He obviously believes in what he's doing, and like Elizabeth told Philip, she believes him, but that doesn't disprove a plot to wipe out the Soviet wheat crops. It means the US will be the only one holding an improved grain, and a pest that can wipe out everybody's food supply. And that's assuming that they're not actually using this project to develop pests as well.

I just think it's amazing that Elizabeth went from "they're evil, they want to starve us to death" to "how wrong we were, they want to feed the world" in 5 seconds flat, with no possible thought to the possibility that the US will misuse this great new power they're developing.

2. As for killing the lab guy - his fate was sealed the minute he walked in on them. It was obvious they weren't just thieves and there was no way they could leave behind somebody who saw them. The FBI might be all over this, and they'll make the connection to their defector. There was nothing they could have done to prevent this. Philip's "that can't happen ever again" might be setting them up for getting arrested.

3. Mischa is a war veteran and political dissident. I don't see him just turning back, and I don't see him as being so helpless as he now looks and acts.

4. After weeks of making it clear that P&E have no idea where Henry is or what he's doing, taking "he's at the library" as code-words for "he doesn't want to tell us what he's really doing" - they still think he plays video games all day. Even after they're told he's doing great, Elizabeth takes "He's studying at Chris' house" as an excuse for him spending time with a girl. For all they know, he might be spending an enormous amount of time studying. They never see him studying, because even when he says he's studying, they don't believe him.

5. Elizabeth's cooking advice sounded like it was taken straight out of a commercial.

6. Is Egypt hotter now than in the Pharaohs times? There are several reasons why Egypt's wine industry isn't what it used to be in ancient times (and it was worse in the 1980s) and I've never heard the weather given as a factor.

7. Oleg's parents could not have made that dinner any more awkward with those three girls waiting there for him in a line.

Re: Treon's thoughts

[quantumreality]

I think #2 is because somewhere deep down, Elizabeth would rather not carry back the news to Gabriel and the Centre that yes, the USA really *is* going to commit biological warfare on the USSR.

If you think about it, that kind of attack on a food crop - even with plausible deniability - does start wars. And in this case, nuclear is on the table.

I think once P&E recalibrate they'll realize the existential threat is more subtle, in that the battle of hearts and minds now includes a virtually pest-proof crop, and the USSR can't exactly whip up one of its own ASAP.

That said they have a window into how the research is evolving, so they can at least keep Gabriel up to date on that.

Re: Treon's thoughts

[jae]

The whole world is hotter now than in the Pharaohs' times.

-J

[beer_good_foamy]

Just a newbie thought - there was a lot of talk about raising sons this week. They're setting up Philip with three sons this season, after first having Henry take a back seat to Paige for a while before getting pushed back into focus along with his two "brothers":
- Henry, his American son, who's... I guess "gifted" is a good word in both literal and metaphorical sense, but from whom he's distant even though he's been there all along.
- Tuan, his "ideal" son both when it comes to politics and in doing father-son things like playing catch on a friendly neighbourhood street or running the family business together. And in a lot of ways they're so similar, which is why Philip who's buried so many memories doesn't completely understand him.
- Mischa Jr, who never had a father to lose until now, and is now standing to lose him before he got to meet him. The son Mischa might have had if he'd stayed, who might show him what he's repressed both in terms of his own memories and the people he's working for.

And then you have the three grandparent scenes - Oleg's parents setting him up with prospective wives; Claudia and Gabriel discussing how to keep Philip's son from him, for fear he'll compromise him; and Mischa Sr's father bringing home food and clothes, memorable because... all the other times he didn't, or because of something even darker?

I don't know where all this is leading, except that I'm sure Mischa Jr's story isn't done yet. All the prodigal sons are going to have to come home, and presumably some father's going to have to sacrifice a fattened calf.

Philip's sons/Henry

[jae]

Good catch about the "raising sons" theme! It particularly puts the issues with Henry into sharp relief.

-J

Thoughts on S5ep5

[saraqael]

This episode struck me as being the first clear signal that the show is heading into its final act. The final scene between Philip and Elizabeth (costumed as one of their fake cover identities at the dinner table in their fake house with their fake son upstairs) felt as momentous to me as the scene at the dinner table in their real house when they confessed to Paige that they were really Soviet spies. Everything changed at that point. This felt like the same sort of turning point for the characters and the plot to me.

The profound guilt that Philip feels over killing the lab director has brought all of the weariness and dissatisfaction with his life and job that he’s been trying to bury (not so successfully IMO) right back out into the open. Philip’s commitment to his ideology and job is truly, as Claudia said, ‘shaky.’ (Gabriel, I note, did not disagree.) Philip has shaky been to varying extents since S1. It’s not just that he pragmatically believes that life in the West is easier and would be better for his children than life back home. Somewhere along the way, he lost his belief that his mission – the ideology that he literally devoted his entire life to – even matters. The job has taken a huge emotional toll on him. Midway through last season, Philip was starting to look downright ghastly from the stress. He said out loud what has been obvious but unstated, “This has been hard for me. For a long time. You know that, right?” To me, it is as if he’s saying that he’s done. He can’t do this job any more. He can’t kill people any more.

What he’s feeling is even more about just all the killing. “It’s us,” he says. He can’t bear what the job is doing to them as a couple. Sleeping with strangers, all of the time spent in their various cover activities on top of the time they spend spying, making their mission the central aspect of their lives, all of these things are in the way of them simply being together. Their relationship is more important than their mission, to Philip at least. I don’t think that Elizabeth feels the same way, not on the surface anyway. She called him simply to say that she missed him. Try to imagine the Elizabeth of previous seasons doing that. She might not be as expressive about her emotions as Philip, or even as self-aware as Philip is becoming, but she clearly loves him and values him as much as he loves her. But unlike Philip, Elizabeth’s devotion to the cause has never shaken. What is most important to her, love or duty? Elizabeth compassionately offers to do the hard part of the job (the killing) to help make it easier for Philip, but he says no and actually looks incredulous that she’d even consider that. Where and how do they go from here if Philip feels like he’s done (because he wants to prioritize their relationship as a couple) but Elizabeth still wants to remain devoted to the mission and to him. The mission does not make her suffer the way it makes him suffer. She still thinks she can have it all. Unlike her earlier self who ratted on Philip’s softness to the Center, she now offers to protect him by doing all the killing for him. That’s very sweet, but also utterly unrealistic. If their KGB bosses found out what Philip was thinking and feeling, they’d pull him out of the field in an instant, and I’m sure that they’d also have some harsh words about Elizabeth offering to cover up Philip’s weaknesses.

Kind of on a tangent from this, but I was thinking about some comments that I saw on Twitter and elsewhere from viewers who thought that it was hypocritical of the Jennings and Philip in particular to be so bothered by killing the guy in the lab, since they’ve killed so many other people before. IMO what set this killing apart from the others wasn’t even the fact that the guy was innocent, but because this mission was so profoundly personal to both Philip and Elizabeth. They both suffered from constant hunger as a child, Philip must more so than Elizabeth. The deprivation they suffered as children shaped who they became as adults. It’s what drove them both to commit themselves to the KGB. Just the idea that the Americans were plotting to purposely starve the Soviets made this killing feel personally satisfying to them both. Thus, their horror to discover that the guy was innocent.

Another emotional bomb was dropped at the dinner table in this episode when Paige confessed her unhappiness to Philip over ‘all the garbage’ in her life and how screwed up she feels. The ‘garbage in her life’ is the truth about her parents. She’s screwed up because of what this knowledge has done to her. She can’t even maintain what should have been a simple teenage romance because of the garbage her parents dumped in her lap. I honestly don’t think that she was trying to make Philip feel guilty, but he clearly did understand just how much damage they did to her when they told her the truth about who they really are.

As for Philip’s other child – no, not Henry – Mischa, Jr, this episode finally made me feel bad for this young man. Now I’m finally interested in this character simply for himself, and I no longer see him as an unwelcome intrusion into the already complicated Jennings family situation. So, yay for that, but still…the poor thing. As Sistermagpie pointed out so well, the fact that he had to struggle to express himself in short, broken English sentences made him seem even more like a lost, vulnerable child. Ugh. That entire scene was so painful. We know the guy is not a little lost lamb. He’s an angry war veteran for one thing. He’s clearly determined to get what he wants so I’m sure we haven’t seen the last of him.

All was not angst in this episode. The scene at the school when the Jennings learned that Henry is a super smart math whiz was pure comedy gold. Likewise, when Oleg arrived home to discover that his parents had invited over an entire lineup of beautiful, eligible young women to be his dinner dates. How awkward was that? So funny. Stan got in a couple of good snarky, sassy lines, too. I still think that Stan’s snark and recent showdown with his new boss is going to come back and bite him in the ass sooner or later, but I do enjoy listening to Stan dish out the sass to his boss.

Speaking of Stan, even the Jennings think that Renee is too good to be true and therefore must be a KGB agent. That’s what we’re all thinking, right? That Renee is some sort of agent? Wouldn’t it be nice if for once, one of the agents on this show actually ended up in a genuinely normal, uncomplicated relationship with a fun, compatible person who actually loved them and wasn’t just honey trapping them and ultimately planning to betray them? Yeah…nah. Not on this show.

Re: Thoughts on S5ep5

[sistermagpie]

Where and how do they go from here if Philip feels like he’s done (because he wants to prioritize their relationship as a couple) but Elizabeth still wants to remain devoted to the mission and to him. The mission does not make her suffer the way it makes him suffer. She still thinks she can have it all.

I feel like part of what's important there is that he *isn't* done, for the same reason he's never been done, which is Elizabeth. There's a lot of people who assume the show is going towards an ending where Philip dumps Elizabeth and defects and to me it always seems like Philip signals his loyalties over and over again at important times. He did it in the pilot when he killed Timoshev, when he said "so we stay" to Elizabeth early in S4, when he told William he would be normal if he could--but WITH Elizabeth, who he knows chooses this life, when he wouldn't agree with Elizabeth's plan about raising the kids in the US if she died because that's what he's "always wanted," and of course when he told Elizabeth that he had no interest in living with Martha even if the kids were grown.

He's really not shaky on that score. He makes the same choice every time. It's just that the Cause isn't the thing that he's loyal to. He still feels something for it when he understands the point--last season he was moved by Gabriel talking about the importance of being prepared etc. But he doesn't always trust that what he's doing is helping anybody at all.

So to me it seems like one of the big things with Elizabeth is really understanding that this is about her willingly sacrificing Philip (and her children, probably) for this cause.

Underneath I think she knows this--remember the dream she had about killing Pastor Tim that connected doing that with her own rape by Timoshev. I think there is a place in Elizabeth that is terrified of doing that to her family and relies on Philip to keep her from going that far, but it's getting to a point where she's going to have to make that choice more actively. She can't be like the end of S3 where she's focused on Reagan's speech while Philip and Paige quietly disintegrate behind her and her easy answers don't help them.

That Renee is some sort of agent? Wouldn’t it be nice if for once, one of the agents on this show actually ended up in a genuinely normal, uncomplicated relationship with a fun, compatible person who actually loved them and wasn’t just honey trapping them and ultimately planning to betray them? Yeah…nah. Not on this show.

It would in some ways fit in with the themes of the season if she wasn't a plant because Philip would be seeing malice where none existed...but she really does seem like a bit much.

[shapinglight]

Is this the first time that Claudia has openly questioned Philip's reliability? I can't remember.

That conversation between her and Gabriel did feel like it was setting things up in some way.

Claudia questioning Philip

[sistermagpie]

In season one she seemed to already think he was bad for Elizabeth--though it seemed like that might have just been about her not relying on any man's affection. Later she said she was wrong about him. (She warned *Elizabeth* that the Centre was losing her...still not sure what that was about.)

I don't know whether we should take this as a new thing Claudia was saying since she made reference to his file. Zhukov questioned Elizabeth about him because of what she'd said in the past. Since then Philip pulled that stunt in sending them to Berlin and openly fought the agenda for Paige and Kimmie.

So my guess is they probably have openly discussed this before. Here they had to be blunt because they were talking about Mischa's experiences. But they were pretty open about asking the question about William too. So I would guess they always talk about agents this way when necessary. Remember in the diner they said that Elizabeth used to be better at "controlling" Philip. An interesting thing about that, imo, was that it suggested that there was a problem in Elizabeth not controlling him enough rather than talking about Elizabeth being influenced by Philip.

Secrets: Henry's and Renée's

[jae]

A lot of the coverage of the "Henry is good at math" revelation among the critics has been along the lines of "oh, so that's what he's been up to!" The thing is, though, we still don't actually know what he's been up to, just that he's been singled out as having a talent for math. There was also a line of dialogue from the teacher about how "something suddenly lit a fire under him" or something like that. We don't know what that thing is (what could get him to take a sudden interest in math???), and we don't know what he's been doing whenever he's away from home other than that it probably has something to do with math. That leaves me feeling more anxious about whatever he might be up to, not less so.

Also, while I think it's a great red herring for Philip to be worried about Renée possibly being an illegal, I actually think if she is a spy, she's a lot more likely to be CIA. It would explain why she doesn't seem to be on Gabriel and Claudia's (or Philip and Elizabeth's) official radar. Also, just thinking from the CIA's perspective: if I were CIA, I would sure as hell want to be trying to get something on Stan at this point!

-J

Re: Secrets: Henry's and Renée's

[saraqael]

I agree with you on both counts. We have no idea what Henry is doing or thinking. We don't know who he spends his time with. All this episode showed us is that he is extremely intelligent, and that he thinks that his parents dote on Paige and ignore him. In the scene with Philip and fake son Tuan tossing a football outside their fake home like a good suburban father and son, the very first thing I thought of was the scene last year where Henry was throwing a ball against the house while Elizabeth was inside talking to Paige. That scene emphasized Henry's estranged, outsider status within his own family. There is clearly more to come in the Henry storyline this season.

Renee as CIA makes more sense than Renee as KGB. The Center already has two agents reporting on Stan. Why add a third? The CIA might be wondering why Stan seemed so cozy with a couple of Rezidentura agents (Nina and Oleg). They might also be investigating Gaad's death and getting close to Stan to see if he had anything to do with it. She could even be a Mosaad agent for all I know. Or she really could just be Stan's dream girl, but we're all so jaded by watching years of jaded, lying, cheating, double-crossing agents that we no longer believe that real love could just happen on its own.

Open flames

[sistermagpie]

I forgot to note this little parallel that I thought was so great during the show.

When Elizabeth/Brenda was with Ben he made s'mores indoors in his fireplace and the whole thing was that it was so fun to be making them indoors, because the whole thing about s'mores is that they're something fun to make over an open fire. You toast marshmallows when you're camping, and now Ben's kicked it up another notch by bringing the fire indoors.

In Philip's flashback his mother warms the hunks of bread over a big open flame as well. Only in their case it seems to be all they have for an oven and heat. It's looks like a furnace. The flames are taller than she is.

Ben's fireplace is strictly a sign of luxury--that's a feature you pay extra for. Philip's on the other end of the spectrum where the fire is all they have. The s'mores are a snack they're pretty much only eating for the novelty of it. Philip seems to have fallen asleep at the table (or honestly he might be weak from hunger given the circumstances) waiting for bread to eat.

It reminds me of Trevor Noah talking about how in NYC "exposed brick" is a feature where as where he comes from poor people have "exposed brick" because they can't afford plaster.

Re: Open flames

[saraqael]

Good catch on the contrast between making s'mores in the fireplace inside the house vs. Philip's mother heating up their moldy bread supper in that gigantic fireplace/oven/furnace contraption.

Did you see the pictures of the interior of child-Philip's house that Joel Fields posted on Twitter? There was a good photo of the fireplace.
https://twitter.com/joel_fields/status/850454223779135488

Real-world history of insects used as bio-weapons

[saraqael]

The Washington Post ran this article a few days ago.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/03/22/the-insect-warfare-on-the-americans-isnt-all-that-outlandish/

There was a rebuttal/correction to the article in yesterday's paper, here. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-got-the-biological-warfare-details-all-wrong/2017/04/07/983da6da-19a1-11e7-8598-9a99da559f9e_story.html

Both articles offer good interesting insights into this season's 'buggy' story arc.

While watching (late) thoughts

[(Anonymous)]

I love the way they're both working on their 'date'!

If it has been VisiCalc, that would have been plausible. For 1-2-3, no.

He is actually more interested in it than the sex - the faking was great, even if I would like to have seen the position switch.

What was the food?

The' busy and irriated' joke is a good one.

Oh, it was a good reason to see the teacher. I am almost disappointed, but it is a nice 'we never see him' acknowledgement.

(The car conversation was how I knew I had missed this one while away.)

Yes, she definitely knew.

It's looking more like the 'she's a spy' people are right. But the P&E conversation in the bedroom says no.

Oleg's 'I told you' look.

The new phone service...

More sexual faking.. until entry? I like the cut to spaghetti.

Just kill Misha, it'll be much easier for everyone.

The Russian version of whatever the awful TV dating show was called...

Is that Philip watching Stan? Yes!

The wallpaper! Unlike anything else in the house.

You can also breed for weakness, but Elizabeth is going 'have I misjudged him?'

Back to EST.

He's going to say 'He died...' Alas no, and saying that he can't see him makes it harder to get him to go with Gabriel.

It's not like you haven't killed innocent people before. Quite a lot of them. Why get particularly upset about that one?

Odd for Elizabeth not to get Philip doesn't care which one does the bad killing, even though 'it's us' is a bit ambiguous.

Re: While watching (late) thoughts

[lovingboth]

Oops, that was me.