jae: (theamericansgecko)
[personal profile] jae posting in [community profile] theamericans
Aired:
3 April 2013 in the U.S. and Canada
29 July 2013 in Australia
1 August 2013 in Ireland
3 August 2013 in the UK

This is a discussion post for episode #10 of The Americans, intended for viewers who are watching the show on the Australian/Irish/UK schedule. Please do dive in even if you've seen subsequent episodes, but take care to keep comments spoiler-free of anything that comes after season one, episode ten.

FX's original promo trailer:


FX's official three-minute recap:


FX's official "Go Undercover" replay with commentary from the actors and producers:


New reviews/recaps:
From The Guardian (UK)
From Unreality Primetime (UK)

Reviews/recaps from first airing:
From the AV Club
From Vulture
From Hitfix
From Think Progress
From the Huffington Post
From Collider
From Television Without Pity
From We Just Might Love TV More Than You
From [dreamwidth.org profile] jessenigma on dreamwidth
From [dreamwidth.org profile] jae on dreamwidth

Date: 2013-08-01 06:29 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] treonb
Ok, I got mixed up last time, so I'll try again :-)

I loved Philip and Stan talking in the motel room. Don't know why that scene got to me, because there were a lot tenser moments in the episode. I'm thinking now it's because I assumed Stan was testing out Philip, but by now I'm much less sure of that.

As for Gregory, it's really a shame they killed off the character. I think when I first saw the ending I was also disappointed with the way they did it. They solved Elizabeth's dilemma and just left us with sadness.

Date: 2013-08-02 02:16 pm (UTC)
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)
From: [personal profile] sistermagpie
I wonder if part of the reason scenes like that are so tense is that we almost expect--or even want--Stan to be testing Philip when he isn't, because that's what makes everything so tense for Philip. He's not smug about putting one over Stan. He seems to really like being friends with the guy, but he's also always terrified. But if Stan were at least suspicious it would seem like less of a betrayal on Philip's part. Plus the fact that Philip's motives are so murky--he does seem to be friends with Stan because he wants the friendship.

I feel similarly about Gregory. On one hand he's such a great character that it's a tragedy to lose him, but otoh for storytelling purposes his ending not only makes sense but it's a great one. He goes out on his own terms, not just as something to provide angst for Elizabeth or remove an obstacle for the Jennings. He's both totally clear-sighted about his death and deceived by it-he thinks his death is cementing his relationship with Elizabeth as the true love story here while Philip's support of her is bringing their own relationship back into focus.

Date: 2013-08-02 02:50 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] katiac
I feel similarly about Gregory. On one hand he's such a great character that it's a tragedy to lose him, but otoh for storytelling purposes his ending not only makes sense but it's a great one. He goes out on his own terms, not just as something to provide angst for Elizabeth or remove an obstacle for the Jennings. He's both totally clear-sighted about his death and deceived by it-he thinks his death is cementing his relationship with Elizabeth as the true love story here while Philip's support of her is bringing their own relationship back into focus.

Yes! I love the way that scene can be seen through both lenses and have a totally different interpretation if you're Gregory, versus if you're Philip/Elizabeth. Just the way the two of them were staring back at each other, so much unsaid and yet understood when Elizabeth said, "Please, Philip. I'm asking you."

And really, I was thankful that Gregory got that last little bit of mercy in his death--he really did think Elizabeth was back to his way of thinking and that they were somehow united in that, where all the little clues sprinkled throughout the episode and the season in general hint that isn't quite the case. I think it would've been cruel if they'd kept him around indefinitely only to keep working for them and have to see Philip/Elizabeth reunite and grow stronger. I was also glad it both removed the "out" of going back to old habits when things got rough for P/E (similarly, Irina is not local so not really a threat in the same way), because like Jae said in another post, it would be great to see the conflict become more internal rather than external. They have so many interesting conflicts just between the two of them owing to their differences in personality and ideology that there are deeper places they can go other than having things pop up out of their pasts.

Date: 2013-08-02 04:37 pm (UTC)
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)
From: [personal profile] sistermagpie
It really is fascinating the way the Philip/Elizabeth relationship is so strong in this ep that's all about Elizabeth/Gregory coming together. Even Elizabeth sees that this is good-bye to Gregory--she could never go back to their relationship truly, but she could give it a good-bye embrace, if that makes sense.

It's funny when you mention Irina that it makes me realize how much from Philip's pov he's always competing with other relationships that Elizabeth feels more strongly about--Gregory and the KGB (and of course Gregory is perfectly aligned with the KGB so she can love them both the same). Philip's strength in the competition is always his stamina and longevity vs. the greater passion and power over the other thing.

Where as with Irina there's much less threat for Elizabeth. There was never any real danger that Philip would be that tempted by her. The threat was more that he'd pull a pragmatic "love the one you're with" for comfort, which is exactly what he did. And that's the bigger threat for Elizabeth--not that Philip is more passionately devoted to somebody else but that he's not passionately devoted to anything (she thinks) because he doesn't show it the same way. In this ep, though, she can see it. The fact that she's seeing it by looking over Gregory's shoulder why they're passionately embracing and Philip waits awkwardly by the door just makes it more striking!

Date: 2013-08-02 04:47 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] katiac
Even Elizabeth sees that this is good-bye to Gregory--she could never go back to their relationship truly, but she could give it a good-bye embrace, if that makes sense.

Exactly. Like I would kind of suspect that even pre-pilot there were points along the way that Elizabeth probably realized she and Greg were growing apart, but didn't want to think about that because they saw each other so sporadically and it was a nice vacation from real life. I'd guess she'd push it out of her head and just focus on reaffirming that one way they'd always connected, but she had to recognize on some level, IMHO, that there was so much of her that was starting to matter to her that it would hurt him too much to hear about--how she loved her kids, how she loved her family, the trust she felt towards Philip, the fears she had--and so probably they didn't get a lot past the connection they had at the very start. I mean, I don't imagine Elizabeth would be cruel to Gregory and all those things connecting her with Phil had to really hurt and threaten him. Because of that, I'd guess it was probably easier just to not mention it and give the impression she still thought the same way she had at the beginning--that nothing had changed.

Date: 2013-08-02 04:08 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] katiac
And we can interpret the deception part of that as sad for Gregory, or we can just be relieved that he didn't have the full picture.

I felt both of these things. I was grateful that he had that comforting little deception to hold on to at the end for a lot of reasons, one of them being how hard the last few months of his life must've been after Elizabeth broke things off to be with Phil. I mean, on the one hand, he supported the cause and all, but it had to really suck for him to kind of be in the position Phil used to, where he's "used" in support of the cause to get them cars and provide surveillance, but without that personal connection he wants.

And I also feared how it would make me feel towards Elizabeth if she had two men pining for her and miserable, and didn't take steps to do the merciful thing and cut one of them loose. Like, I don't think she's trying to use them in a calculated, manipulative way, but she definitely knows how they feel about her and plays that card when she's out of other options. ("Please, Philip. I'm asking," or asking Gregory to keep an eye on Philip and their kids to keep them safe. Ouch.) It worked here, IMHO, because the time span was so quick that it was only a few months, but I wouldn't have wanted to see that dynamic drag on indefinitely, both because it would risk making Elizabeth too unlikeable and also I think it would weaken both Philip and Gregory if it went on long-term and they went along with it.

Date: 2013-08-02 04:29 pm (UTC)
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)
From: [personal profile] sistermagpie
Totally agree on Stan. I remember an interview with the actors or writers where they said they had to pull back on Stan being suspicious or having reason to be because it would make him look stupid if he was looking for things and somehow missing them.

Instead Stan's initial suspicion shows that his senses are always on (I'm still laughing over "I wonder if Philip is one of those Directorate S illegals...") but he's got far more reasons to think he's being paranoid, or that whatever is "off" about Philip doesn't come down to him being a Russian spy. The more he knows the guy the more of a disconnect there is because he sees him being a father and a travel agent. But as his wife points out early on, he can't just have a conversation with somebody without really paying attention to what they say any more than Philip can have a conversation without looking for weak spots in the person to exploit. It's just second nature for Stan to look for lies as it is for Philip to lie.

It's something that I think the show really plays with a lot, too, that as viewers we can get arrogant about. IRL most con men or spies send up flags that look obvious after the fact, but when you're starting out with the premise that everything's normal it takes a lot to break through that.

nd can I just say that I just love that the show gave Elizabeth a previous relationship and made it actually significant and meaningful to her, but managed to do all that without actually detracting from the developing relationship at the centre of the show

The more I think about it the more amazing it is that they're confident enough to give their central couple this strong an alternative. Gregory's just such a perfect, respectable example of an ex-love without a true triangle. He'll always be important to Elizabeth and Philip will always, for valid reasons, be jealous of him. Yet at the same time you can see how she changed over the years to the point where it was Philip she related to and not Gregory. He would have absolutely seen that if they were together all the time, but he didn't see her all the time and he had a lot of reasons for believing in the relationship as well. So by this ep all Philip has to do is his usual thing to make a case for himself. Gregory, too, is being himself and just as naturally showing Elizabeth why she fell in love with him, but at this point all those things also show her why she's no longer the woman who was like him. Even when she's clinging to the idea that Gregory will go to Moscow she hears and accepts that Philip is right about what Gregory will think about that.

Gah! It's such an amazing mirror of the whole central of idea of the show of what's real and what's a cover, and how a cover can be become the real life. When they met Gregory was Elizabeth's "real" self and now, despite her literally fighting against it for years, Philip is. And it's nobody's fault.

Date: 2013-08-02 04:58 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] katiac
Yet at the same time you can see how she changed over the years to the point where it was Philip she related to and not Gregory. He would have absolutely seen that if they were together all the time, but he didn't see her all the time and he had a lot of reasons for believing in the relationship as well.

So by this ep all Philip has to do is his usual thing to make a case for himself. Gregory, too, is being himself and just as naturally showing Elizabeth why she fell in love with him, but at this point all those things also show her why she's no longer the woman who was like him.

When they met Gregory was Elizabeth's "real" self and now, despite her literally fighting against it for years, Philip is. And it's nobody's fault.


All of this. I think Gregory fears (and voices at several points) that she shouldn't let Philip "soften her up" when really, the truth he doesn't want to face is that Philip hasn't done anything at all. It's Elizabeth herself who has changed. And just like you said, now the "real Elizabeth" is the one who fits with Philip, not Gregory.

And this episode was so beautiful and sad, because they at one point (the Chinese food) showed that aspect of things that had once fit so well. And then at others, they showed exactly why they had drifted apart, how there wasn't really anything there that could make it more than a few hours, like when Gregory suggested they run off to LA together and Elizabeth is just like, "I can't," and it's obvious to the audience after seeing the way she is with Paige and Henry that there's no way she could ever leave her kids, but she's always kept that separate from him so poor Greg doesn't really get that part of her. Or how she's so dead convinced he's going to want to go to Moscow, not really able to look at it logically and see Gregory for who he is, even when Philip can. And especially there at the end before Philip gets to the safe house, because you can see they've never really had to face something real where they disagreed and Elizabeth can't handle that.

Date: 2013-08-02 02:41 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] katiac
we don't see any of the events of this episode from Philip's point of view. From a writerly perspective I think that's only right--the story of this episode had to be Elizabeth's--but I hope someday that some worthy fanwriter will tell the story of what the experience was like for Philip, because there's definitely a really interesting story there, too.

That's actually one of the chapters I can't wait to get to in my own fanwork. That had to be one of the hardest moments for Philip, and the way he reacted so selflessly was really a testament of how much he loves Elizabeth--that he supports her and does what is hardest for him and best for her even when there's nothing he gets in return.

Date: 2013-08-02 03:52 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] katiac
Yes. That was one of the neatest things to watch unfolding throughout the season... how that first little moment of coming together in the pilot led to Elizabeth letting her walls down and allowing Philip to see her and know the true her. So by the time we got to the point where Elizabeth was so badly hurt by the lie and shut things down, she'd allowed herself to be open to him enough that he really DID understand her on level he hadn't before, and understood what it was that she needed.

Date: 2013-08-11 08:44 pm (UTC)
tinny: The Americans - Philip/Elizabeth "Is it happening now?" (americans_pe_is it happening now)
From: [personal profile] tinny
Sorry to jump in in the middle...

You've said before that he gets her. I don't think I follow you.

My interpretation is that he is currently in a bad position concerning Elizabeth's respect. He's basically confessed his love for her and got nothing in return. So I have the impression that he is watching her now, trying to desperately figure out what she wants from him, but not getting anywhere yet.

The fact that he doesn't go through with trying to protect her certainly buys him points (but it's not something he takes to heart, apparently, as we see later). Then he backs down when she asks him to, even though he doesn't think it's a good decision (and he tells her so).

I don't see much of a change in him concerning his awareness of what she wants or what she needs. He probably thinks that is what she wants: he's doing the best he can to help her, support her, protect her, and let her lead. Because he loves her no matter what she says or feels.

It doesn't seem to me as if he knows what he's doing yet. The fact that he is still purposely annoying her (when it comes to the kids and him showing off for them) makes me think that's still his old pattern there.

I am really bad at judging people, so I may be overlooking obvious signals, though. I am totally open for hints.

Date: 2013-08-14 08:07 pm (UTC)
tinny: The Americans - Philip/Elizabeth "Is it happening now?" (americans_pe_is it happening now)
From: [personal profile] tinny
I'm really enjoying your insights, and I hope you keep it up.

This first: thank you! I am enjoying the discussion a lot, too. Thank you for engaging me.

But that's already a huge change, isn't it?

Yes, he's changed his behavior, and you're right, it had to be the hardest to do it in respect to Gregory. He's not thinking clearly when it comes to Gregory, so that was really impressive. I think he is still experimenting, though - looking what that behavior results in. He's still testing her out. Not in a bad way, to trip her up, just, without judgement, to find out what makes her tick, and how she will react to what he does.

No, he's still not over his "I love you so I am going to protect you" thing, but my read is that that's such a gut thing for him that it's going to be a near-impossible habit to break

True. But that is what will get him points with her, so I would think he'd try. I have seen all the episodes by now, but is there a discussion post for the last one? Because if I continue now, it is going to be spoilery. I'll go on to the next post for now.

There are dozens of ways to read between the lines on this show

OMG yes. That is so unusual and so much fun. I am so happy that they didn't give us anything clear yet, and there is still so much for us to speculate on and so much for Phillip and Elizabeth to work on. I am so looking forward to season 2!

Date: 2013-08-04 09:10 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] treonb
Not really about the episode, but I felt cheated by the promo. I was looking forward to Philip facing the FBI with a towel and a gun.

Date: 2013-08-04 01:41 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] katiac
I agree--they're very misleading in most of the promos. It's almost gotten to the point where the one thing I can count on is whatever they're implying in the promo is NOT going to happen :).

Date: 2013-08-07 06:46 pm (UTC)
lovingboth: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lovingboth
Oh, this was sooooo much better than the previous episode. About my only quibble is how come it was apparently so easy for the car breaker to find the ring?

As well as what's been said, there was a lovely non-reaction - at any point in the episode - from Philip when he knows who he's / they've killed - it's not even mentioned when he goes to the house for a quick chat. Does he think it's better if Elizabeth doesn't know, so she can't give anything away to Stan?

Date: 2013-08-08 08:40 am (UTC)
lovingboth: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lovingboth
The other thought is that Gregory is the first character who's been able to choose how and when he dies...

Date: 2013-08-11 08:29 pm (UTC)
tinny: The Americans - Philip/Elizabeth "Is it happening now?" (americans_pe_is it happening now)
From: [personal profile] tinny
I am really happy about his episode, especially the ending. The two previous ones were so heartbreaking. They tore my heart out and stomped on it, and I was trying not to watch the screen in several scenes.

This ep continues in the same vein at first, by threatening Gregory, by making Phillip and Elizabeth not understand each other at all throughout the first half. It was really hard to bear. She was so hostile towards him, and he still seems so helpless. He just lets her rant and *takes it*. All of Phillip's and Elizabeth's interactions hurt me so much, because, silly me, I hadn't even considered the effect a separation would have on their kids and their daily routines.

But I was totally mollified by how they let it end. The slow beautiful music did its part to that as well. Gregory had to die, true, but he got to do it on his own terms and it was emotionally satisfying to see how everyone suffered.

Phillip trusted Elizabeth, and he didn't go through with trying to protect her. I loved their last look at each other, leaving Gregory's place. So much pain. Phillip would so like to comfort her but can't. But there's understanding as well.

I have a tiny quibble about them actually letting Gregory kill himself, because no matter how reliable he's been before, it's different when it's about him having to die. He did make a good point about knowing "when he's done", and I probably would have trusted him to go through with it, too, but still. It was risky. But in hindsight, it shows what a brave man he was, and what Elizabeth originally saw in him. I really liked him reinforcing her belief in her strength.

That is actually what Phillip is doing from then on, trusting her strength. Although ... I don't really think that's all that new to him. He always must have known how strong she is, and he loves her for it, too. I really have trouble interpreting what it means at this point.

Oh, last but not least, I liked Stan's pain here, too. There are cracks in his relationship with Nina, and of course Sandra is not sitting idly by, either. I found it painful to listen to him try and justify his behavior to Sandra and not being able to reach her. Painful but totally believable.

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