Episode discussion post: "Munchkins"
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theamericansAired:
18 May 2016 in the U.S. and Canada
This is a discussion post for episode 410 of The Americans, intended for viewers who are watching the show on the U.S./Canadian schedule. (Feel free to dive in to the discussion even if you're coming in late--and you should also feel free to start a new thread if it seems too daunting to read through what's already been posted first. If you're reading this at a point where you've already seen subsequent episodes, though, please take care to keep comments spoiler-free of anything that comes after season four, episode ten.)
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18 May 2016 in the U.S. and Canada
This is a discussion post for episode 410 of The Americans, intended for viewers who are watching the show on the U.S./Canadian schedule. (Feel free to dive in to the discussion even if you're coming in late--and you should also feel free to start a new thread if it seems too daunting to read through what's already been posted first. If you're reading this at a point where you've already seen subsequent episodes, though, please take care to keep comments spoiler-free of anything that comes after season four, episode ten.)
Original promo trailer
Overnight reviews
From Vulture
From the AV Club
From Slant
From Hitfix
From Vox
From the Wall Street Journal
From the LA Times
From the New York Times
From USA Today
From Entertainment Weekly
From Paste
From Indiewire
From EconoTimes
From the People's World
From Mstarsnews
From TV Equals
From Showbiz Junkies
From Den of Geek
From Geeks of Doom
From Celebrity Dirty Laundry
From TV Fanatic
From tv.com
From The Young Folks
From the Observer
From Hidden Remote
From Inverse
general comment
Date: 2016-05-19 06:12 am (UTC)But first, we finally get some more background information about Philip/Misha. Was there ever a scene when he told Paige his real name? In any case, we are to understand that he has told her about his life back in the USSR - or she has asked, because she really does have to press him for details. I suppose it's so ingrained in him not to speak of himself or his past that nothing ever comes out voluntarily.
Tough Russian mothers, yes. But Elizabeth is softening in this episode. I wonder what Gregory would have thought about that. Gabriel is more understanding, presumably because he's been there too at some point. He offers Elizabeth a respite and she accepts it, albeit reluctantly. She really does not want to admit to weakness!
On the whole, this episode was a little all over the place. There were many things going on, just like usual, but scenes felt rushed at times. In particular, I felt that the re-appearance of Kimmy just so that Philip could redeem himself felt unnecessarily preachy.
In contrast, the fumbling "hanging out" scene between Matthew and Paige felt more real and relevant. He reveals the other side of the story, in a way. People disappear for all sorts of reasons, sometimes because they want to and sometimes because they have to. Perhaps Paige realises there are many more levels of deceit and complexity to this "work" her parents are doing.
Elizabeth telling Paige that "we tell each other the truth" as some sort of comfort felt hilariously untrue. Even between her and Philip there isn't always complete trust.
Detail I: Henry's tennis ball against the garage door sounds like shots being fired. I'm sure that was very much intentional.
Detail II: Oleg and Tatiana having LOUD sex. This show very rarely uses sex for titillation and this was a great example of this again, relating to their discussion on how their previous living conditions affected how they had sex in the past. It can be seen as Tatiana seeing herself as Oleg's equal now. But is she telling the truth about being in section 12? She does appear to be in on the William operation, but where are her loyalties?
Detail III: I covet the cup and saucer that Elizabeth is drinking tea from at Gabriel's.
Also, goodbye Gaad. That was not particularly unexpected.
Re: general comment - Kimmie
Date: 2016-05-19 03:22 pm (UTC)Re: general comment - Kimmie
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2016-05-19 06:28 pm (UTC) - ExpandRe: general comment
Date: 2016-05-19 04:51 pm (UTC)We saw her tell him his name. She demanded both their names and they both gave them (Elizabeth the longer version, he said Mischa.)
I got the impression she's never asked him before. She's never shown any interest like that at all. She referenced his father dying at 6 because he told her that in S2 before she knew he was Russian.
He was redeeming himself? I didn't think it was much about that. As on the nose as it was, as saraquel said, I took it as my one chance to hear Philip express his own feelings about what Paige did.
Kimmie
From:Re: general comment
Date: 2016-05-20 12:20 am (UTC)While watching thoughts
Date: 2016-05-19 10:26 am (UTC)'Your mum' / 'your dad' vs 'my grandmother' / 'my grandfather'.
Back story! Complete with significant pause before 'tired'.
Ha at the 'it wasn't about what you liked' over the shots of Elizabeth and Young Hee laughing and hugging.
Back to playing Scrabble. And talking work. Gabriel spots the 'close' evasion.
Ha ha at the 'check your margins'. And at the 'It'll be with Martha's dad' entrapment. Wasn't he at the Clark-Martha wedding?
Ha! I did say it would be easy to make him disappear in Ethiopia, but even I don't think the KGB did it. Her life expectancy is shortening by the second... if only they knew where the lawyer's offices are. Paige looks suitably shocked and guilty.
Yep, they're horrible.
That is very specific. Ah, she's biological weapons. I wonder why that's such an ultra secret. Ha at the 'they can't stop being Americans' and subcontracting.
Yes, there it could have happened, but they'd want to kill both Tim and Alice. Ha ha ha at Philip wondering if it happened!
Haven't seen Stan look that uncomfortable for a while.
Of course they're serious! How naive does Paige have to be not to know that? Nice way to have Henry be present in everyone's thoughts without actually having him there.
Saying 'we're not hear to hurt you' is not a way to.. ouch. I wonder what they wanted. It obviously brings a closure to the Gaad story, but I wonder why the show did it.
We finally see Kimmy again. There should have been at least one equivalent scene with Lisa in the episodes before killing her off. Ah, Kimmy's got a boyfriend.
Ha at Philip telling Kimmy off for telling that sort of secret.
Stan talks work secrets with Matthew!! Hence the previous scene.
Paige seems very interested in recruiting Matthew to the church.
'It's ok, they understand... and by the way, in case they do need to kill you, did you really do that tape?'
Ah, Young Hee does know something's wrong with him.
Ha at Elizabeth's 'thank god'.
'We tell each other the truth'.. at least most of it.
Naive Paige again - how would it help Henry to know? She knows the cost of knowing, so is it just selfishness on her part that wants Henry to know too?
Arkady is pointedly not telling Tatiana what the operation was and that someone he respected is dead.
Thinking about it, killing Gaad - a death that could have been enemy action - was done as a way of getting the FBI out for revenge in the same sort of way as the killing of Amador did. (Thanks to the still 'I don't believe they would have been that stupid' way of allowing Amador's body to be found...)
Little laugh from Elizabeth at 'good Christian' and Gabriel isn't convinced by 'no problem'. A big 'do you want me to ask?' question from Gabriel and an even bigger 'yes' from Elizabeth.
Thoughts on Munchkins
Date: 2016-05-19 01:25 pm (UTC)Tim: surviving the apocalypse, I tell you. But before I get to that: is this season lethal to old time regulars or WHAT? Okay, Martha survived (as far as we know), but she’s off the show, Nina is dead, and now Gaad is dead as well. Who’s next, Arkady? Mind you: writing Gaad off the show made sense, because you can pull the old “this time, this is going to cost my job for real” only so often before it becomes empty. So Gaad actually losing his job was necessary. And I expected him to exit the show for good (with maybe return gigs once or twice a season to dispense some advice to Stan), because his function in the narrative was over. But I certainly didn’t expect him to die as the result of a badly handled attempt at recruitment on the KGB’s part while vacationing in Thailand. Which makes me wonder, of course, what the writers are up to in this regard. The obvious reason would be to send Stan on another Roaring Rampage Of Revenge, but been there, done that, and this show usually doesn’t repeat itself.
Which makes me assume that the reason for Gaad’s death has something to do with a planned storyline for Arkady (about time he gets one). After all, the show gives us the scene of Arkady getting the news of Gaad’s death while talking to Tatiana, and being clearly shocked and unhappy. And it makes sense that Arkady, when hearing Gaad more or less HAD to leave the FBI, would try to recruit him – their two scenes together back in season 2 weren’t just wonderful viewing material, they did strike a rapport of the respected enemy type. Unfortunately, the Thailand division of the KGB thought it was a good idea to show up not discreetly in a café, a la Arkady and Gaad, but in threes in Gaad’s hotel room, he bolted through the window/balcony door, and this show, for the very first time in my long tv viewing career, actually takes into account that glass isn’t sugar (which is what they use for glass in tv and for the movies when someone has to get thrown through it), and lets Gaad kill himself this way, via glass splinter, and with the three KGB guys looking as stunned as Arkady later and repeating “I’m sorry”.
So, complete botch of an operation that Arkady seems to have initialized. And the Oleg and Tatiana conversation delivered some hints as well. Methinks Arkady might indeed the next cast member in danger, though hopefully not for the chop.
Meanwhile, chez Jennings: Paige, clearly having heard the prayers of many a viewer, tries to get some family background information about her father, aka The Parent Who Never Tells This Stuff Unless Direly Pressed. Thank you, Paige. Philip confirms his father died when he was six, but not, apparently, his mother, who instead was a tough lady like Nadezhda’s mother who could intimidate corrupt supervisors into handing over her child/teenage son’s complete salary. Unless Philip is lying to Paige, which isn’t impossible, but I don’t think so. So, new backstory canon.
(He also says that “liking” Tobolsk (his hometown in Siberia) wasn’t an issue, because you don’t like or dislike in the situations he and Elizabeth were in. Which probably contributes to Paige’s reaction later when the entire family going on the run briefly becomes an issue. )
The bombshell dropped in this episode, more than Gaad’s death, is that Pastor Tim and friend for a time go missing in Ethiopia, which causes Tim’s wife Alice to (understandably) freak out, and for the first time we get some Alice characterization beyond “Pastor’s wife, likes to talk”. Seems Alice is far more aware than her husband that Russian spies are likely lethal people, because her threat to the Jennings’ about the tape comes with “if something happened to Tim, or if something happens to me”. (Note: Elizabeth later isn’t just angry that Paige thinks they might indeed be responsible for Tim’s disappearance when they bent over backwards to find a method to keep Tim and Alice alive so Paige wouldn’t hate them; she’s professionally offended that Paige would think they would be so incredibly stupid to kill only Tim, not Alice, when both know.) This latest turn not only fleshes out Alice somewhat but also exposes something of what Paige really thinks: she might be naïve re: how the KGB would get rid of Tim (i.e. not by leaving his wife alive to blab), but she definitely isn’t buying into her parents’ assurances that they would never do stuff like this, either. (And correctly so, of course.) “How would I know?” whether or not something her parents tell her is true in such a case as Tim’s is a question to which there simply isn’t a good answer, though Elizabeth and Philip later try to give one, saying it comes down to trust, and that while they don’t tell Paige everything, they don’t lie to her, either.
I’m always suspected Philip chose the alias Jim for the persona he adopts with Kimmy either consciously or unconsciously because of Tim, and with this Tim-Paige, Philip-Kimmy doubling in mind, it’s not surprising that this episode brings back Kimmy for a scene which doubles her with Paige again. (It also updates us on the situation between her and Philip; he’s now seemingly securely in the role of solely paternal confidant, since they briefly discuss her current – young and not so satisfying – boyfriend; she calls him James, which I don’t think she did last season, though maybe I forgot or misremember.) Kimmy tells Philip about her father working for the CIA, and how this suddenly makes sense of everything; her father confided in her. The parallel to Paige’s fatal confession to Pastor Tim is obvious, and Philip doesn’t respond in Jim’s persona; he responds with what he might or might not have wanted to say to Paige but couldn’t since Paige, too, has to be handled, telling Kimmy she shouldn’t have told him, and that this secret could bring her and her father closer, but only if it’s kept a secret. Otoh, who knows, it might actually be honest advice; Philip works best with bits and pieces of the truth.
Speaking of parallels between fathers and their jobs: Paige has realized the one between Stan and Philip, and in this episode sounds out Matthew about how he feels re: his father’s profession. This, btw, is a very different scene from s1 when Paige for a while had a teenage crush on Matthew who wasn’t interested and hardly noticed her. Now, he’s interested in her (not necessarily as a girlfriend but as a person, definitely, asking her to stay, seeking out conversations), and Paige doesn’t treat this as a romantic signal but tries to talk as much as she can without betraying confidence again about the current key issue in her life with someone who actually might understand.
Tim, in the end, turns out to have simply suffered from a broken down car and the search for gasoline followed on a long march on foot and getting lost before getting back into contact again. Ah, the days before mobile phones. (Today, they’re the main communication method in any given African country. Including and especially poor ones.) Which is such a Pastor Tim thing to do. I bet if he ever ended up in a Siberian gulag by accident, he’d get out of it again and would find his way back to the states. He’s that kind of character.
The big change going on that doesn’t happen in accidental deaths (Gaad) or suspected deaths/kidnappings which in reality are harmless accidents (Tim): Elizabeth, she who defines herself by never giving in, by always taking the harder option, because that’s what she’s been taught was the right thing to do, finally reaching her limit here. In two storylines, no less, though that she does is interconnected. In the Tim one, when she says the words Philip has been waiting to hear since the pilot, “I think we should run”, and in a fitting irony, this time this prospect is foiled by Paige’s “no way no how!” at the idea of living in Russia. And in the Young Hee one, when through the episode she stalls with the next step (presumably blackmailing Don, though for logistics reasons, I hope there’ll be more to it than “promote William to Level 4 or I’ll tell your wife we’ve had sex”, since Don can still foil that one by a confession, though the longer he waits the less Young Hee might be willing to believe the supposed night of adultery with her dear friend wasn’t his idea) while watching the emotional havoc of what she did to Don unfold: Don hardly can look Young Hee in the eyes anymore, Young Hee goes from her cheerful self (in the opening scene) to leaving a desperate message on Patty’s answering machine because she can tell something is wrong with her beloved husband. And thus when, in the most suspenseful scene of the episode at the end, Gabriel offers Elizabeth an out after having gotten her to confess she really likes Young Hee and Young Hee’s family, offers to ask their bosses for an alternative so Elizabeth won’t have to break Young Hee and Don any further, Elizabeth finally says “yes”.
Now Gabriel could have been testing Elizabeth. And/or the Centre could simply say “no way, go on as planned”. But it’s still an incredibly important moment in Elizabeth’s development as a character. When Zhukov tells her in an s1 flashback that she was chosen as an Illegal because they knew she would never back down, never surrender, you could practically hear the words getting engraved on Elizabeth’s heart. There have been choices she hated making since then: for example, letting Lucia be killed right in front of her by a man deemed more valuable for the current operation, when Lucia was someone she had loved mentoring and whom she had liked. Killing Betty last season. But she still always went through with all of this. (One notable exception was NOT killing Pastor Tim and Alice, but that was for Paige, and it wasn’t something the Centre had previously ordered her to do. It wasn’t a mission.)
So, with Elizabeth finally having reached a personal line in the sand: what other changes will result from this? It might not even salvage Young Hee’s happiness IF the Centre finds another way (which I doubt). (Though it presumably would if “Patty” were to tell Young Hee the full truth.) (Or if Young Hee can get over a perceived one night stand.) Will Elizabeth now be considered less reliable than before, and/or will she and Philip have to take on more difficult cases again to make up for this? I have no idea, which I love.
Lastly: Stan, Aderholt and Martha’s father: was a dastardly move on Stan’s part, but a competent one. After all, he knows Martha has contacted her parents while being on the run already. And Mr. Harrison actually has met Clark; he might know details that could help identifying Clark. I noticed that Matthew, too, brings up Martha (and that Stan has told him about her is interesting and does show an attempt to communicate with Matthew) to Paige. With Paige being who she is, somehow I think the original entrapment of Martha, or what Elizabeth did to Don, or the ongoing Kimmy operation would be the hardest thing to forgive her parents for, way above actual killings. And yet, Paige is adopting more and more spy qualities; when we see her hugging the relieved Alice, her changing facial expression shows she’s already thinking of the next step, and her later assessment of Alice to her parents is given, and treated by them, as handler-of-Alice advice.
Re: Thoughts on Munchkins - Arkady
Date: 2016-05-19 03:21 pm (UTC)Re: Thoughts on Munchkins - Arkady
From:Re: Thoughts on Munchkins - Arkady
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2016-05-19 06:06 pm (UTC) - ExpandRe: Thoughts on Munchkins - Arkady
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2016-05-19 06:06 pm (UTC) - ExpandRe: Thoughts on Munchkins - Arkady
From:Re: Thoughts on Munchkins - Arkady
From:Re: Thoughts on Munchkins - Arkady
From:Re: Thoughts on Munchkins - Arkady
From:Re: Thoughts on Munchkins - Arkady
From:Death in..
Date: 2016-05-19 03:26 pm (UTC)I can't imagine Arkady would get into any trouble professionally over this: since when has killing ex-FBI section chiefs been a problem for the KGB? He was also on a different continent when someone else messed it up.
Personally, however, he's not at all happy with it.
Re: Death in..
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From:Gaad's value to the KGB
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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2016-05-19 06:20 pm (UTC) - ExpandElizabeth
Date: 2016-05-19 09:18 pm (UTC)But having done the setup seduction, there's a limit to what she can do to make it all better. She certainly would need to talk to Don but to say what? 'It's all right, Don, we didn't actually have sex - I just gave you a handjob while you were passed out - and I promise I will never tell anyone about any of it. You don't mind having me still come around to the house, do you?'
And what about talking to Young Hee? 'Hi, when Don and I were a bit drunk, I nearly shagged him and that's what he's upset about, but it didn't actually happen, so that's ok isn't it?'
Re: Thoughts on Munchkins
Date: 2016-05-20 12:27 am (UTC)But you're right, in light of her comments to her parents about "getting the tape", it's possible she was at least partly cynically using her connection with Alice to figure out a way to get the tape back and destroy the evidence.
Gaad and the glass
Date: 2016-05-20 05:43 am (UTC)Re: Gaad and the glass
From:Re: Gaad and the glass
From:Re: Gaad and the glass
From:Elizabeth's character development & Paige's growing awareness and experience
Date: 2016-05-22 12:56 am (UTC)I like the way you framed this, that she gives in to her own feelings over the mission here in two instances. Her "Now I'm thinking we should run" is somewhat overshadowed (for me) by her "yes" to Gabriel but just as significant. I love how the writers have led up to this character moment for her. It's taken her four seasons to get to this point and understandably given the development of the first half of this season with her growing friendship with Young Hee and how much stress the Paige situation has been causing -- especially how scared Elizabeth was of Paige not thinking that she was loved by them when Elizabeth thought she was infected by the virus (and then Elizabeth's own mother finally dying). It all just feels so natural and not forced given all that her character has been through over the course of this show --> the first real emotional break (to me) being her desire for things to feel real between her and Philip in S1.
Also agree that Paige is developing more spy-like qualities with her assessment that it was too soon to ask Alice of the tape -- the way they played it made it seem like her parents hadn't even asked her to ask Alice for it but that she came up with it of her own accord. Also really adored the Matthew/Paige scene not only for the fact that he's now the one more interested in her but it was an interesting insight into how she is now trying to seek some sort of insight into her own situation without betraying her parents' trust like she did the first time around (and she is really understanding the consequences of her earlier breach of trust now with this whole Pastor Tim situation).
Re: Paige's growing awareness and experience
From:Sistermagpie's thoughts on first watch - Munchkins
Date: 2016-05-19 06:25 pm (UTC)Something this ep made me think about was class. The show doesn't seem to have a point it's making about it, but they deal with a lot of different people from different backgrounds and I honestly feel like in some ways you can see more of an understanding and ease when P&E deal with lower class people. They're still foreign, but I feel like there's often more understanding between them, something that was underlined again with Philip talking about his childhood.
We know Philip had to kill people himself as a kid to keep them from taking his food. He worked at a job (making rakes--Kimmie loves rakes!), his boss stole part of his paycheck. His dad was "tired" when he got home, which sounds like a euphemism (shocking he even had a father). His dad was a logger, Elizabeth's a miner (literally a modified hammer and sickle).
Remember the ep, I think the one with the assassin, where they see the illegal arms dealer. In the middle of him talking to Elizabeth his daughter pulls a rifle on them which Philip quickly grabs. That little girl is already a part of her dad's criminal operation, enough to pull a gun for protection of them both. Characters like Viola, I think, feel vulnerable. When she finally confesses I don't think she expects leniency, because she's a black cleaning lady. She gets mercy, but no way does this person expect the FBI to just be nice to her. She knows what she's risking.
I feel like these people in some ways just as much of a contrast to the middle class people like the Tims and the Jennings kids. Even with Alice announcing she's going to turn in her parents Paige still focuses on her parents' potential sins rather than danger to herself. When she finally asks her parents what happens if she sends the tape--in a clear "so what do we do then?" way, she reacts to their obvious answer of going to Russia with all the indignation of a consumer demanding to speak to the manager.
Or much like Alice herself. When Alice hears news Tim's disappeared it's not just that Philip and Elizabeth are the most obvious candidates, imo. It's that she also can't conceive of something happened to him by chance. She even tells them that it was the State Department who told her the place was under Soviet control...like, did she not know that beforehand? Was Philip wrong in saying that "everybody knows" that Ethiopia is dangerous? And even if she and Tim did know that intellectually, did they really feel themselves in danger? My feeling is no.
Just as Paige can't conceive of having to move to Russia. What, she's just going to SPEAK RUSSIAN? (Did you note that Jae?) As if it's expecting her to do something absurd. The idea that there are many people in the world who do have to make that kind of transition is just crazy talk to her. She even calls it that--crazy. You don't just live in Russia!
Which again makes me think about that chat with Philip with his backstory we finally hear a bit about. Philip's answers were so slow in coming, either because he'd never thought these things (did he like Tobolsk? As opposed to what? He probably didn't complain to his parents for not having him in Leningrad) or because he was censoring/trying to translate the experience. Like whatever he meant by his dad being tired. (It's important enough he has to tell her this.)
Or his answer to whether his mother was a good cook. She made a soup he liked. Did he again just never think to judge her on whether she could cook or not because getting food was the bigger issue? Was he just thinking about not having food? Was she a terrible cook? All this while Paige is dropping bouillon to flavor the pasta.
This also makes it interesting, btw, to remember that Elizabeth's one attempt at a "recruitment moment" with Paige was taking her to the bad part of town that made Paige visibly uncomfortable. She told her about Gregory and Paige had a brief but intense moment of racial interest. She noted there were not black people practically in Falls Church, which seems to be true of her church as well. She read about Civil Rights. Then she discovered Gregory's mugshot. From then on he was "Gregory the drug dealer" and they dropped that all aspect of it. Maybe this was just something they were dealing with more in S3 (they also introduced Aderholdt and had the Apartheid storyline). I get that the truth derailed all of that, but I do still hope it's significant that Paige is far more comfortable in the world of that church and that type of outreach.
That note about Tobolsk, btw, also makes me think again about the ongoing argument in some places how Philip is determined to be in the US. There are things there that he likes.
Both Philip and Elizabeth in talking about their mothers first and foremost describe them as tough and relate a story of their mother yelling at someone for them. (Elizabeth's mom told the neighbors to shut up so she could do her homework, Philip's mom got his paycheck back.)
Anyway, I thought it was a good choice to have Philip give a little bit of his childhood showing that the things Paige thinks are most important--the respect she's given, her parents being honest and good, getting her choice in food and geography, wanting her parents to *not* be so tough they'd kill someone--were not in his worldview at all. Yet he doesn't present it in a critical way and in fact Paige probably doesn't pick up on it much.
This is why the Kimmie scene, for me, was my favorite in the episode, or at least the part where Philip gets to be on the receiving end of Paige's confession with Kimmie. For multiple reasons he reacts he opposite way of Pastor Tim--he doesn't press her for more info, doesn't encourage her to talk, doesn't think her having a confidante is most important. What I liked about it, though, was that everything Philip's ever said about this Pastor business has been pro-Paige. He's always protecting her or defending her, always thinking the way he told Paige they'd have to think about Pastor Tim--imagining how he feels.
Elizabeth has yelled at her a couple of times (You were supposed to put this family first, that's what you were supposed to do) but they just really haven't spent any time at all parsing how they *feel* about Paige betraying that trust.
Only here Philip is able to put at least some feelings into words because he's speaking for Kimmie's father. He still isn't talking about feelings, but he's seeing the damage in a certain way. He doesn't call her a snitch or tell her her responsibility was to protect him or the family. He says it could have brought them closer but only if she kept it. By telling, Paige has not only put them in practical danger, she's kind of become the enemy.
Paige and Alice conclude the ep with an apology. They were wrong about that murder accusation. Of course Paige didn't ask about the tape right away since she'd never been playing any of this as a terrified teen. She seemed to agree with Alice that this had "nothing to do with her." The reality of her parents "we have to leave" is maybe settling in underneath, especially with hearing about how an FBI secretary also "disappeared." At the time she heard that she was probably most relating it to Pastor Tim, but Martha's disappearance was more like her parents' would be.
So Alice was afraid for the first time, made threats. Paige felt bad and cried. Alice cried. Paige asked if Philip liked his hometown, if Matthew thought his dad being FBI was "cool" or "weird." These are things you worry about when the necessities are taken care of (or when you're really pushed to a limit like with Nina).
Of course Elizabeth and Philip are moving more in the direction of feelings mattering--no where more so than when Elizabeth asks Gabriel to see if she can pull out of the Patty operation. Paige was ordered to stop being precious about her moods before.
Matthew must really have a crush on Paige if he's still interested after she explains how her church group is cool. That church is possibly the least cool place on the planet.
Speaking of uncool, I keep being distracted by Paige's ponytail. I know she likes dressing like an office worker, but that low ponytail where the hair covers her ears seems so 80s. For a while she's been copying Elizabeth whose hair isn't particularly period either. Both kids seem committed to not having period hair at all. But the ponytail surprised me. I don't expect high 80s side pony or anything, but I wonder about it.
Oh, also love that of course the folks at church pronounced it "a miracle" that Pastor Tim & friend walked back to camp. God did it!
Re: Sistermagpie's thoughts on first watch - Munchkins
Date: 2016-05-19 07:29 pm (UTC)hair
Date: 2016-05-19 07:30 pm (UTC)Re: hair
From:Re: hair
From:Paige's response to moving to Russia
Date: 2016-05-19 08:02 pm (UTC)Like, you're Russian, but don't expect me to move "back" to Russia and suddenly become Russian.
But, besides that, I really didn't get her response. Her parents might be in serious danger. She was there when Alice threatened them.
Would she prefer the FBI find her a foster family? Assuming she's even given a chance and not just deported straight to the USSR.
And her rant about "who are you going to lie to there" was really ridiculous. It was a complete breakdown.
Re: Paige's response to moving to Russia
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From:You can't be Russian spies in Russia
From:Re: You can't be Russian spies in Russia
From:Race, Class, and Paige
Date: 2016-05-20 06:49 am (UTC)Like you, I hope this aspect of s3 wasn't simply dropped. You could even add Alice's "I just found out the Soviets have influence in Ethiopia!" reaction, I suppose: Tim, Alice and also Paige thought of Ethiopa as basically the place full of starving people in need of help. A disaster zone full of victims, not a country with its own story. They didn't think of it as a state with a political system and affinities. Whereas if Tim for some reason had, say, gone to Cecheslovakia, then of course they'd been aware it's a country in the Eastern Bloc with a political history, including the Prague Spring, before they ever entered the plane. It doesn't mean the desire to help isn't 100% sincere, but there is a subconscious condescension to it which I think is tied to race.
BTW: have you read this news about the CIA being directly involved in Nelson Mandela's arrest which made the headlines a couple of days ago? I especially love the "most dangerous communist outside the Soviet Union" designation. In 1961? Leaving all spies alone, I don't see Mao taking kindly to being thus ignored.
re: class and the incredible divide between Philip's and Elizabeth's childhood versus Paige's, I think Paige when asking Philip her questions was on the one hand truly interested and wanted to know, but on the other shied away from it as well because it was so outside her mental parameters. Poverty is something that happens in third world countries. Paige wouldn't ask an Ethiopian "was your mother a good cook?" or "did you like living in Addis Zemen?" But, Elizabeth's brief "your father and I" rant from s2 notwithstanding, like many children she can't imagine her parents other than they are now. And Philip Jennings is a well to do suburban travel agent whom not too long ago she accused, as she did her mother, of not caring about anything other than themselves. She simply can't imagine him as someone who had to kill for food, and she doesn't want to. One of many reasons for her angry reaction to the mere thought of going to Russia is I think the rejection of that other identity.
Re: Race, Class, and Paige
From:Re: Race, Class, and Paige
From:Russian front
From:Re: Race, Class, and Paige
From:Class in The Americans
Date: 2016-05-22 01:13 am (UTC)I like how you highlighted the times we've seen Philip and Elizabeth more able to connect to people of lower or working class or minority or oppressed groups in general - from Gregory to that assassin with his daughter or Viola. Maybe even that old woman Betty who talked about how her husband built that business up himself. And even though Young Hee is in more of a middle class background, I feel that Elizabeth relates to her more because they are immigrants and perhaps have more of an experience of working hard to assimilate into a country and make a good life for themselves.
Also, it's interesting because I feel that for Elizabeth her worries over her children's complacency when it comes to growing up middle class manifest in a distrust of capitalism while Philip is taking Paige to the mall in the Pilot and he is more open to the idea of enjoying the material comforts (buying himself the Camaro for instance) because it's a nice change from what he had experienced growing up.
I agree that it was nice to finally see Philip's feelings verbalized in the Kimmy scene. You're right that we haven't see as much on his end in terms of processing (makes sense given how private he is) so it was interesting to see him gently explaining to Kimmy that the point of a secret given by one's parent is to bring you closer to them (but that it only works if it's kept).
anyhoo really loved your analysis here of class and the comforts that come with privilege...of course Paige can't conceive of going to Russia...survival is a foreign concept to her unlike to her parents.
also on an unrelated note it was nice to see Elizabeth's "Now I'm the one who thinks we should run" --> not only was it a moment of growth for her but for me all of Paige's accusations this episode felt like an affirmation of how much more emotionally attuned Philip was to the whole Paige situation when the two were arguing about what to do about Tim and Alice.
Re: Philip proved right
From:no subject
Date: 2016-05-19 07:27 pm (UTC)Philip talking about his past, his mother, and then getting that as voice over to Elizabeth was BLOODY GENIUS. Elizabeth comes from that world - and being of that world is so important to her that she struggles to take the easy way even when doing so really wouldn't have a downside.
Paige was fabulous this episode - smart, compassionate, becoming a young adult. (That she has apparently MULTIPLE prospective boyfriends, including Matthew, hanging around and is completely oblivious because she's too busy is hilarious and adorable to me.) I like that as she's drawn into the spy world she has loads of problems with it but also is apparently really good at it. Not going for the tape back right away WAS right, I think, if counter-intuitive, and I am glad Paige has those instincts. That tape is going to be suuuuper important, but she wouldn't have got it back at that moment even if she'd tried.
And I'm glad she's calling her parents on not telling Henry. Go Paige!!
Having a whole episode where one of the big themes is 'sometimes stuff just happens' is a bit of an unlikely choice to my mind, but I think they did it really well. It's not just people you can't trust as a spy: it's coincidence, it's the WORLD. That's so tough. Because sometimes people DO fall through windows and die by accident. Sometimes people just get lost.
(Although now we've met Martha's dad i'm wondering if we'll at least hear something about what happened to Martha, eventually, somehow.)
Oh and we got a bit more on the mystery of Tatiana, but given we barely know more than Oleg (just enough to be more confused by her!) but I don't have opinions on that either.
Paige wanting them to tell Henry
Date: 2016-05-19 10:07 pm (UTC)But telling Henry is not going to help him: if they don't have to exit in a hurry, he's much better off not knowing. If they do, it's still going to be an enormous culture shock and knowing in advance that it might have to happen is already upsetting her.
It's also not going to help the family as a whole: one more person who might talk too much, and it's the person who currently has the best relationship with the Beemans.
What she wants (but doesn't know that it's possible yet?) is the equivalent of Gabriel. Or indeed Gabriel, assuming her parents would let her anywhere near him / any other handler after what happened with Jared.
Re: Paige wanting them to tell Henry
From:Re: Paige wanting them to tell Henry
From:Re: Paige wanting them to tell Henry
From:Re: Paige wanting them to tell Henry
From:Re: Paige wanting them to tell Henry
From:Re: Paige wanting them to tell Henry
From:Re: Paige wanting them to tell Henry
From:Treon's thoughts
Date: 2016-05-19 08:36 pm (UTC)And what does it mean for the next season? We'll get a whole bunch of new characters?
Besides that:
- Gabriel finally got around to caring about Elizabeth's feelings. This conversation should have taken place before she seduced Don, and I still think it's in the KGB's interests not to push Elizabeth on this.
- The CIA father is blabbing to his daughter, the KGB agent is telling his son their secretary was a spy. The Americans need a refresher course on security.
- We finally saw the new boss, the Munchkin, but it doesn't really explain the episode name. Who were the Munchkins here?
- P&E tell Paige they never lie to her, but they already did, when she asked if they kill people. It's a bit more than not telling her the details of their operations.
- Alice crying over Paige's shoulders - I don't think Paige expected that, and Alice really needs to find an adult to comfort her and not weigh down a kid (literally).
- I loved the scene with Henry playing ball in the background. That, and P&E asking themselves if the Russians could have made Pastor Tim disappear were little points of humor.
- The way Stan looked, I have a feeling Aderholt was lying to Martha's father when he said they're not giving up. Though I'd really expect the Americans not to give up. The CIA should be looking for her in Moscow. It would be a real coup if they managed to abduct her back.
Re: Treon's thoughts
Date: 2016-05-19 09:35 pm (UTC)Murder
From:Telling the kids
From:Re: Telling the kids
From:AHAHAHAHA OMFG
Date: 2016-05-19 11:32 pm (UTC)*ded*
Re: AHAHAHAHA OMFG
Date: 2016-05-20 12:16 am (UTC)Re: AHAHAHAHA OMFG
From:Re: AHAHAHAHA OMFG
From:Martha's Dad, & Gaad
Date: 2016-05-20 05:10 am (UTC)Because knowing that the 'groom' had a 'sister' and 'mother' there would be huge for the FBI: maybe the couple they've suspected; maybe a third agent (or could they even hope that a handler has finally been spotted?).
And, of course, the wedding picture!
We never saw who took it, but it looked posed. Even if someone at the church took it (and not a photographer), and the negative was lost, wouldn't Martha's parents have a copy of the picture??
I was waiting for Martha's dad to pull a 3x5 picture out of his jacket. Besides for bringing up the issue of 'giving up', I'm not sure what that scene brought to the plot.
I'm certainly surprised that it seems like the FBI hadn't already met with Martha's parents, and asked all about Clark Westerfeld, and what he looked like.
Given that Stan really does have the Right Stuff for this job, and sticks with his sense of what about a story doesn't 'sit right', and was clearly uncomfortable with the mention of the FBI giving up, he may start down this road on his own. All he needs is one negative or print of that wedding photo (and what parents wouldn't have them, or at least some pictures of their daughter and her husband?), and we're in the final stretch.
About Gaad: it sure looks like he was making a run for the balcony, and a clumsy attempt at a grab tripped him. I don't think he killed himself, or that there were orders to kill him if he refused the proposition (but they did seem to have something in store for him in that event, from their reticent unease at his question).
I bring up Gaad because that might put Stan on to Philip: if it is determined (or even suspected) that the Soviets were in that hotel room, most folks may assume that there are hundreds of ways for them to have found out where Gaad would be. But for a counterintelligence agent like Stan, I expect the question would be "How EXACTLY did they know where he would be?" And since Gaad has been retired for over half a year, and maybe told no one at the bureau about his trip except Stan, and Stan told no one except...Philip... well, Stan has a skill and determination to track down these wispy questions and possibilities. I wonder if that question is hitting him in that last shot in the vault.
With the issue of the picture, and the question of how the Soviets knew where to find Gaad, we may end up with two personae non grata: Philip may finally appear on Stan's personal radar this season, even if Arkady winds up as the official object of the government's retaliation for Gaad's "murder".
-Al
How did the KGB locate Gaad?
Date: 2016-05-20 06:13 am (UTC)Stan did tell Philip that Gaad's going to Thailand, but that isn't enough to track him to that hotel room. They'd have to know when he's coming (which isn't that easy) and follow him from the airport.
Makes more sense that somebody in his wife's family delivered him to the KGB.
Re: Martha's Dad, & Gaad
From:Re: Martha's Dad, & Gaad
From:no subject
Date: 2016-05-29 07:26 pm (UTC)I really wasn't expecting that Gaad dies scene. I just thought the previous episode would be the last we saw of him. Am now expecting Stan to go into another Amador-type revenge spiral and go all out to recruit Oleg. After all, that was pretty much the last thing Gaad told him to do.
The final scene was a huge step for Elizabeth. If the Centre agrees to find another way to get the access codes (unlikely, IMO), I wonder if this means that Elizabeth would just disappear from Young Hee's life. It would certainly be the kindest thing to do.
Loved the snippets of Philip's childhood that we got here.