theamericans | Conversational topic maybe

This just popped into my head today and I figured I'd throw it out in case anyone else is interested in thinking about it!

We know last season they started to establish a link between Henry and Stan. Stan feels alienated from his own son and Henry, a younger kid who's somebody else's, is easier for him to deal with. Henry, too, has somebody to play with on his schedule (there were times in the past where Philip would have liked to have hung out with him when Henry himself was off doing something else and vice versa).

But the original link between the two, even before Sandra (who might become a point of contention among the three characters herself if Philip is, say, suspected of having an affair with her), was when Henry interviewed Stan as a "hero" figure because he was in the FBI.

That made me think of Mischa, Jr. Philip's formed a really strong emotional loyalty and bond to this kid who even he has admitted might not exist. So it occurs to me that where we had this configuration of Elizabeth/Paige/Elizabeth's mom last season we now have Stan/Henry/Philip/Mischa Jr. too.

That is, just as Henry and Stan naturally present as an alternate father and son--an adult and a boy who are both American and on the same side etc., so too is there this father/son relationship that might have been in Philip/Mischa Jr., a son on the same side, from the same country, a son whom Philip's work can potentially actually protect and help rather than hurt. A son who's already in the war with him.

When Philip confessed this to Elizabeth, iirc, he even said, "I have a son" before adding "...another son."

Obviously I don't think Mischa Jr. has or could displace Henry in Philip's heart as a son. But you almost can't avoid the AU life he represents. Especially since this is Philip. Elizabeth always tries to pull everyone together into one coherent group even if they don't fit (she thinks Paige ought to feel like her mother's granddaughter even when she feels like a stranger to Paige). Philip, otoh, tends to splinter off into all these reflections of relationships: Philip/Elizabeth vs. Clark/Martha, Philip/Paige vs. Jim/Kimmie, and maybe now Philip/Mischa Jr. (or is it Mischa/Mischa Jr.--honestly I'm not sure!) vs. Philip/Henry.

A few more things of note there: one of the first scenes with Henry was at an assembly where he and Philip said the Pledge of Allegiance together, and early on people noted right away that Henry was interested in certain activities that were associated with Russia to American minds--the space program and hockey (while avoiding the rivalry between the two countries--these interests seemed to connect him to his unknown heritage rather than put him in conflict with it). At the start of S3 when Gabriel asks Philip about Henry and hockey Philip says he's "more interested in baseball these days"--baseball, aka the "American pastime." Basketball would not have carried the same weight.

In the short time Paige has been in the know she's avoided the whole US/USSR Cold War and focused more on personal behavior: her parents have lied, her grandmother sent her child away, they associate with drug dealers, they perhaps steal or hurt people, she's wondered if they have affairs. If Paige was to come around she'd have to get over this--and this is the first thing Elizabeth basically said to her in trying to ease her into it when she explained that she and Philip and Gregory didn't stay within the law when they fought for the things Paige thinks are important.

Henry might be the kid to more naturally see the problem in nationalistic and political terms even if he barely understands them. He has, after all, already shown he doesn't share Paige's rigid determination to be correct in his behavior (he broke into a house and beaned a guy in the head with a beer bottle). He's probably fine with Stan having taken a life or gone undercover and lied--this is what agents do. But Stan fights for Team America against the Russians and that makes him the good guy. The Russians are the bad guys. Our country vs. their country.

Current Mood: thoughtful

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

jae

To be honest, I still hate the fact that Misha, Jr. is still a current topic because the inconsistencies in the Irina storyline make me a little bit crazy. ;) But I love the idea of thinking of him as being yet another reflection of a relationship for Philip. (Which in turn is also making me wonder what Paige will think if and when she finds out about him--she'd definitely view that in terms of individual behaviour!)

I really think while the coming season is going to have to deal with the fact that Paige knows while Henry doesn't, I don't think they'll be able to keep it from Henry for very long. But would he really be able to continue thinking of the Russians as incontrovertably "the bad guys" once he found out that his parents were Russians? I'm honestly not so sure. He's a kid (and an American kid), so he'd have all of the moral absolutes that a kid has just from growing up in that society, but like you point out, those moral absolutes aren't part of his internal psychological makeup the way they are with Paige.

-J

From:

sistermagpie

Ugh. You know I share all those feelings about the Irina storyline!

But the one thing that does seem IC is that Philip would essentially create a whole relationship in his mind as opposed to doing what plenty of other men might do. Especially if it's a way for him to give himself something he psychologically needs--a person he's fighting for on the other side that he can imagine he's helping or to whom he has a personal responsibility.

It's funny that Paige totally would judge Philip for having an illegitimate child, I think, and yet his personal behavior has actually been pretty exemplary with it. I mean, there's the premarital sex which some people might consider bad--don't know how Paige would judge that. The abandonment. But he didn't abandon the kid on purpose--in fact, according to Irina's nonsensical story she had to keep the kid a secret because he never would have abandoned him. He's the parent who would have answered NO to Paige's question about sending her away. Plus he now feels like he did something wrong by not knowing about the kid and is taking responsibility now.

So it really is the kind of situation that would show up the limitations of Paige's moral code, potentially, if she has the particular church youth group morality that many (but not all) kids in church groups do.

I, too, don't think Henry would really be able to just see Russians as bad guys if he knew the truth. But I can see that being something he has to work out the way that Paige has to try to work out having badly behaved parents.

It'd be interesting to see him deal with that if that's what happened, because while Paige's Elizabeth-like demands for correct behavior have always been set up as a problem Henry really seems to have a lot of things about him that would make him potentially more forgiving and curious. His interest in Stan wasn't about patriotism and he's obviously not the kind of kid who would, say, not want to be friends with a Russian kid.

From:

treonb

I agree that they'll have to deal with Paige knowing and Henry not knowing, but why do you think they won't be able to keep it from him? Paige was always suspicious something was off, but Henry always accepts what his parents do without asking questions, even the weirdest things.

From:

jae

He's getting older, though. And he's no idiot. And things will have palpably changed in that house.

Speaking of Henry getting older, get a load of this photo of Keidrich (and the others) from the premiere! *shocked face*

-J

From:

sistermagpie

LOL! They're going to have to use his name when he first appears so the audience knows who he is.

p.s. It will be interesting to see how the changes in the house read to Henry. Like with Paige she looked at the weirdness and saw things like affairs at first. I wonder how adding Paige to the mix will read to Henry.

Edited Date: 2016-03-06 03:02 pm (UTC)

From:

jae

Yeah, me too. I hope they leave room to explore that in the story.

-J

From:

sistermagpie

The character is I guess not quite the age Paige was when they started, but the actor is. They've established him as more the kind of kid who's in his own world at times (like staring at a video game) but he'd still be a much bigger force in the house at this point.

I know on shows like this the kid who's obsessed with the parents is going to be more obvious to write, but Henry's been established as somebody who definitely takes an interest in people. It's just such a juicy thing to have him wonder about his parents from a different angle. Like just as an example, where Paige was suspicious of lies, if Henry noted his parents being stressed. Paige has often been a source of conflict--Henry does not like things disrupted.

Plus he's hanging out with the counterintelligence guy so he's maybe more likely to think about spying as a thing that happens.

From:

sistermagpie

That aspect seems so close to even their original thoughts about the series I can't believe they'd be eager to tackle it twice in totally different ways.

From:

treonb

I did not recognize him. But that's the problem with kids, they grow.

Personally, I think it will be more interesting if Henry doesn't find out.

From:

selenak

I agree that Henry is the one more prone to think of Russia versus US as bad versus good - down to using the Evil Empire term in a literal fashion -, while potentially understanding of lying and being undercover if Stan (or any other American agent) does it. However, I would question this:

He has, after all, already shown he doesn't share Paige's rigid determination to be correct in his behavior (he broke into a house and beaned a guy in the head with a beer bottle).

Yes, but he also burst into tears and insisted that he was good, not bad, that he knew the difference, when his parents caught up with the break-in news. This is different than Paige's reaction when Elizabeth and Philip caught her lying, which was to go on the offensive and accuse them of lying as well and keeping her out. So I would say Henry's a bit more flexible, but also with a greater guilt and shame potential than Paige. Paige is pretty convinced in her own moral rightness; Henry would like to be good but sometimes seems to suspect he's not. The other big difference that strikes me is of course that Paige wants to change the world and Henry doesn't. He's content with the world as it is. Even if the potential hero-worship of Stan should develop further, and Henry should develop an interest in becoming an FBI agent, I can see it being in a Stan like "catching bad guys is cool" (i.e. young Stan's conclusion after being exposed to the Dillinger story) fashion, not because he thinks there is something wrong with the world as it is.

From:

sistermagpie

So I would say Henry's a bit more flexible, but also with a greater guilt and shame potential than Paige.

Absolutely! When I was writing that sentence I knew I should address exactly that but couldn't think of a succinct way to put it into words. But you're right--Henry wanting to be a good person and suspecting he's not is exactly right. He had a similar reaction to hitting the guy. When Paige and he got home he questioned whether the guy was really a threat and if he maybe seriously hurt an innocent person. In fact, Henry has also been shown to work through questions like that in everyday life--like when he told the story of the kid stuffing the apple in his mouth and Henry feared he was choking and helped him out.

So both kids are actually uniquely interested in morals and their own moral character. They just think about it in different terms--terms that mirror their parents pretty well. Paige and Elizabeth both are drawn to objective rules of behavior (the rules of the State/the Bible) they try to emulate, are usually convinced of their own righteousness and put a lot of importance on small behaviors--Philip enjoying the perks of the job is a sign of moral weakness just as Paige's parents lying is a sign of corruption.

Philip and Henry are more flexible about behavior and put more emphasis on context, but they're also often more likely to examine their own behavior and its affect on others.

The lying example is such a great one because like you say, Paige saw her lying the way her mother would have in a similar situation--it was not like other lying because she was justified. In her case she was right to lie. Henry lies in that same episode when he covers for Paige, and he doesn't feel guilty about that either. Not because he feels self-righteous about it or even knows the real reason Paige needed him to cover. He just naturally sees it as right to cover for his sister to their parents. He's not a snitch. Had he been confronted I suspect he would have taken the punishment and considered it fair but still not regretted it.

Edited Date: 2016-02-20 04:40 pm (UTC)

From:

soupytwist

That's a beautifully clear way of describing the different approaches to morality! And another way of putting that is: Elizabeth and Paige put the moral AUTHORITY elsewhere. (The state/the Bible decides if they're acceptable, ultimately.) Philip and Henry put themselves as their own ultimate moral authority, with the responsibility of deciding where the lines are, and both find it difficult.

I think Henry's ultimately gonna decide that he is okay with saying his parents are not evil. But given his context, that IS going to be really difficult. I think most of it's going to depend on how he finds out. I am currently thinking Paige is gonna make a play that it's not fair he doesn't know when everyone else does...

From:

sistermagpie

Yes! Definitely. And that in some ways is good since they don't torture themselves, it but also makes them potentially more likely to do terrible things because they don't take responsibility for it. (Not that this is always the result of following an outside a authority, of course.)

That is interesting to wonder about Paige. Thing is, she's spent a lot of the series throwing her weight around as a big sister so I can see her maybe seeing it as right and good that she knows something Henry doesn't. But then...I could also see her telling Henry to make a point thinking she's being the mature one. Because she doesn't seem that good at thinking things through from another perspective. She might not really be able to imagine the psychological ramifications from telling Henry.