Wow, this episode was dense. At the half-hour mark I checked the time and was worried it was almost over so much seemed to have happened. But then at the end I felt like we'd barely gotten started! Things I remember from the first viewing.
Paige's new friends would be annoying to anybody, imo, but she really struck gold in terms of annoying her parents. Go Paige!
Also interesting that while Elizabeth is worried about the ideology Philip is very focused on the lying. People have pointed out the irony of him scolding Paige about that, but I think it runs just as deep as Elizabeth repulsion about the religion. He doesn't want Paige to wind up like him who lies as easily as he breathes. It's becoming second nature to her and I think he feels responsible for it, like they've modeled it without meaning to do that.
On the religious aspect, Philip, too, has expressed a distaste for it but it's interesting that he's not as freaked out as Elizabeth, even when they're alone. I think part of it is understanding, again, how things "work" in the US. Religion is just a thing; it's not always a cult.
I also wonder if Philip is beginning to make connections between his own indoctrination and the type of things Paige is getting into, so seeing it as not so different. Elizabeth, of course, is able to rant about this sort of thing completely unironically, but this isn't the sort of thing Philip would bring up to her. I wonder if he really agrees with Elizabeth that they know who they are--or at least that he does.
There's a lot of things he won't bring up to her. Other posts in the thread really nail it. He's checking her, he's noticing the problems, but as her partner he's trying to handle it the respectful way.
Though this also led to another funny thought I had during the ep. There was a point where I thought, "Philip's the wife." Which is a totally sexist way of putting it and too reductive, but what I meant was that Elizabeth often gets treated in the way that male characters more often get treated (and there's nothing wrong with that). The combination of her stoic-ness and obvious vulnerabilities in a man is often what's referred to as "man-pain." That man-pain has actually interfered with their work several times. Yet the KGB seems to consider her a really valuable asset to the point where Grannie is concerned about keeping her running, we know Zhukov also took special interest.
Meanwhile Philip is just sort of expected to do his job, step in to balance when necessary without pointing out that he's done so when he's done so. Dude spent 2 months *by himself* running missions, raising the kids, keeping Martha satisfied and also running the travel agency--apparently quite well because they had a good 2 months. Philip can bring home the bacon and fry it up in the pan! But it's not really remarked upon. We see Elizabeth struggling with the kids alone during the separation, but the two months with her gone isn't even broadcast. (For obvious reasons, but the result is the same.)
So many scenes were fraught with...stuff in this ep it was amazing. Some I remember...
The moment where Elizabeth turns off the radio. Philip says he was listening to it and she I think kisses him and says "I know." But she says it really fondly. I couldn't help but wonder if in the past his listening to country music annoyed her like so many other of his American interests, but now she sees it as a non-threatening quirk that's part of the guy she loves.
That also makes me think how country music, while not always overly Christian, is not shy about calling on the Lord. I wonder if they thought of that when they stuck in that moment. Not to indicate that Philip's any more interested in religion, but just as part of the way he gets how it's part of the culture.
In fact, I'd really love to now see Philip play a religious character, just to channel more stuff into his work.
I'll bet Paige's group has a really annoying youth pastor that the Jennings will totally hate.
Stan and Philip was probably my favorite conversation just because...wow. I love looking at Philip through Stan's eyes and then remembering who he really is. Like when Stan was talking to him about killing people and I remembered oh yeah, Philip can actually relate to that. And would probably love to talk about the times he didn't feel good about it.
It's also just so fun how consistently Philip listens to people while revealing almost nothing. In this convo iirc he did say some real things about his marriage, for instance--though I think he was at times wondering if he should pretend to have also have had an affair (half pretend?) or not, and then just went with a clever avoidance: "You think about it..." He just listens really well and Stan blurts out all sorts of things: I killed somebody! I'm having an affair! My wife and I live separate lives!
And what does Stan really know about Philip? Really not much that we see. I mean, not Misha!Philip but Philip Jennings. He spoke in fairly vague terms even about his problems with Elizabeth. I don't get the impression Stan has a detailed idea of how the separation occurred.
Unlike Elizabeth who this week dipped into the specifics of her rape. When Philip first offered to do the job for her I thought he was just trying to avoid the standard stuff of a honeytrap, but now I realize they must have discussed what she was planning to do and that probably made him all the more nervous about it. That's why he was saying there were other ways to get to him.
I think, actually, that his nervousness about her has made him less likely to challenge her than he would be otherwise.
I almost wondered if Claudia wouldn't talk to him. Not that he'd talk to her about Elizabeth, but they've both clearly come to the same conclusion about what's going on with her, that she's scared and getting jittery and trying to power through it when maybe she should rest and come back later. It might be smart for her to drop some ideas to Philip that he won't acknowledge to her but would still hear. But then, she probably doesn't trust Philip still or something.
Oh, and so back to Stan/Philip for a second, it's kind of summed up in that fabulous Philip/Elizabeth exchange where she asks him how he "got" Stan to admit about the affair and he just says "We're friends" and she's confused.
Oleg's "warnings" to Nina about the sex were wonderfully complex in context of this show. Because yes, there are times when things get mixed up, like with Stan/Nina, Elizabeth's story to Brad and maybe even Philip/Elizabeth in some ways. But Clark/Nina isn't confused and Elizabeth/Brad ultimately did seem to be all about Elizabeth being disappointed that she had to go for the handjob, I think.
Also, Arkady is fast becoming a real go-to guy for me. I love his alliance with Nina against Oleg.
I'm also glad Vlad continues to haunt Stan--interesting of course that the FBI is not letting this go while the KGB, working in the shadows, has decided to just not check out who slaughtered their agents.
The anti-Semitism foundation laid early on is also really interesting, especially since I wondered at the beginning if young Lenin--err, I mean Philip in his excellent pointy beard--would find himself uncomfortably identifying with the scientist who built a life for himself in the US. So far he seems comfortable compartmentalized and not questioning the ethics of kidnapping.
I wonder if the show will delve at all into whether of not Philip or Elizabeth has any feelings about Jewish people themselves. I don't know how the overall anti-Semitism in the USSR would manifest in individual people.
Interesting that this was also the ep that brought up the KGB blackmailing someone for being gay, what with current issues in Russia regarding homosexuality obviously echoing the discrimination and oppression mentioned here regarding Jewish people. (Elizabeth's story also kind of echoes recent controversy about rape in the military too, I guess.)
I don't think it was meant to be a big hammer on those connections or anything, but it does seem right that this ep includes Paige getting into Christianity (which has its own biases against many people including Jewish people, gay people and Communists depending on the church), Soviet anti-Semitism, 80s homophobia, Soviet anti-religious bias...
In fact, I wonder if looking through it we'd find everybody paired up in terms of a bias presented and the people biased against also presented. Like we got Elizabeth ranting about Christians and Paige's Christian teen friends. Elizabeth ranting about commercialism and Philip and Henry's desire for a new car and Intellivision. Anton's talk about anti-Semitism with Anton himself (and I suspect Israeli agents). We didn't see gay people (that we know of) and didn't hear anti-Communist stuff from the Christians. But I suspect this will be a longer-running theme they're just starting on. Larick, if we meet him, will be an actual gay person. The kids in the church group might absolutely talk about how sad and immoral people are if they don't believe in God. And Paige probably would love to throw that back at Mom. I and others thought it was implied that one of the workers at the Travel Agency was gay, and of course we started the season with the Afghanis saying they were united with the US against the godless Communists--though of course today suddenly the differences between that God as perceived by the two countries are very very important.
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timeasmymeasure
sistermagpie's thoughts on first watch - A Little Night Music
Date: 2014-03-20 04:32 pm (UTC)Paige's new friends would be annoying to anybody, imo, but she really struck gold in terms of annoying her parents. Go Paige!
Also interesting that while Elizabeth is worried about the ideology Philip is very focused on the lying. People have pointed out the irony of him scolding Paige about that, but I think it runs just as deep as Elizabeth repulsion about the religion. He doesn't want Paige to wind up like him who lies as easily as he breathes. It's becoming second nature to her and I think he feels responsible for it, like they've modeled it without meaning to do that.
On the religious aspect, Philip, too, has expressed a distaste for it but it's interesting that he's not as freaked out as Elizabeth, even when they're alone. I think part of it is understanding, again, how things "work" in the US. Religion is just a thing; it's not always a cult.
I also wonder if Philip is beginning to make connections between his own indoctrination and the type of things Paige is getting into, so seeing it as not so different. Elizabeth, of course, is able to rant about this sort of thing completely unironically, but this isn't the sort of thing Philip would bring up to her. I wonder if he really agrees with Elizabeth that they know who they are--or at least that he does.
There's a lot of things he won't bring up to her. Other posts in the thread really nail it. He's checking her, he's noticing the problems, but as her partner he's trying to handle it the respectful way.
Though this also led to another funny thought I had during the ep. There was a point where I thought, "Philip's the wife." Which is a totally sexist way of putting it and too reductive, but what I meant was that Elizabeth often gets treated in the way that male characters more often get treated (and there's nothing wrong with that). The combination of her stoic-ness and obvious vulnerabilities in a man is often what's referred to as "man-pain." That man-pain has actually interfered with their work several times. Yet the KGB seems to consider her a really valuable asset to the point where Grannie is concerned about keeping her running, we know Zhukov also took special interest.
Meanwhile Philip is just sort of expected to do his job, step in to balance when necessary without pointing out that he's done so when he's done so. Dude spent 2 months *by himself* running missions, raising the kids, keeping Martha satisfied and also running the travel agency--apparently quite well because they had a good 2 months. Philip can bring home the bacon and fry it up in the pan! But it's not really remarked upon. We see Elizabeth struggling with the kids alone during the separation, but the two months with her gone isn't even broadcast. (For obvious reasons, but the result is the same.)
So many scenes were fraught with...stuff in this ep it was amazing. Some I remember...
The moment where Elizabeth turns off the radio. Philip says he was listening to it and she I think kisses him and says "I know." But she says it really fondly. I couldn't help but wonder if in the past his listening to country music annoyed her like so many other of his American interests, but now she sees it as a non-threatening quirk that's part of the guy she loves.
That also makes me think how country music, while not always overly Christian, is not shy about calling on the Lord. I wonder if they thought of that when they stuck in that moment. Not to indicate that Philip's any more interested in religion, but just as part of the way he gets how it's part of the culture.
In fact, I'd really love to now see Philip play a religious character, just to channel more stuff into his work.
I'll bet Paige's group has a really annoying youth pastor that the Jennings will totally hate.
Stan and Philip was probably my favorite conversation just because...wow. I love looking at Philip through Stan's eyes and then remembering who he really is. Like when Stan was talking to him about killing people and I remembered oh yeah, Philip can actually relate to that. And would probably love to talk about the times he didn't feel good about it.
It's also just so fun how consistently Philip listens to people while revealing almost nothing. In this convo iirc he did say some real things about his marriage, for instance--though I think he was at times wondering if he should pretend to have also have had an affair (half pretend?) or not, and then just went with a clever avoidance: "You think about it..." He just listens really well and Stan blurts out all sorts of things: I killed somebody! I'm having an affair! My wife and I live separate lives!
And what does Stan really know about Philip? Really not much that we see. I mean, not Misha!Philip but Philip Jennings. He spoke in fairly vague terms even about his problems with Elizabeth. I don't get the impression Stan has a detailed idea of how the separation occurred.
Unlike Elizabeth who this week dipped into the specifics of her rape. When Philip first offered to do the job for her I thought he was just trying to avoid the standard stuff of a honeytrap, but now I realize they must have discussed what she was planning to do and that probably made him all the more nervous about it. That's why he was saying there were other ways to get to him.
I think, actually, that his nervousness about her has made him less likely to challenge her than he would be otherwise.
I almost wondered if Claudia wouldn't talk to him. Not that he'd talk to her about Elizabeth, but they've both clearly come to the same conclusion about what's going on with her, that she's scared and getting jittery and trying to power through it when maybe she should rest and come back later. It might be smart for her to drop some ideas to Philip that he won't acknowledge to her but would still hear. But then, she probably doesn't trust Philip still or something.
Oh, and so back to Stan/Philip for a second, it's kind of summed up in that fabulous Philip/Elizabeth exchange where she asks him how he "got" Stan to admit about the affair and he just says "We're friends" and she's confused.
Oleg's "warnings" to Nina about the sex were wonderfully complex in context of this show. Because yes, there are times when things get mixed up, like with Stan/Nina, Elizabeth's story to Brad and maybe even Philip/Elizabeth in some ways. But Clark/Nina isn't confused and Elizabeth/Brad ultimately did seem to be all about Elizabeth being disappointed that she had to go for the handjob, I think.
Also, Arkady is fast becoming a real go-to guy for me. I love his alliance with Nina against Oleg.
I'm also glad Vlad continues to haunt Stan--interesting of course that the FBI is not letting this go while the KGB, working in the shadows, has decided to just not check out who slaughtered their agents.
The anti-Semitism foundation laid early on is also really interesting, especially since I wondered at the beginning if young Lenin--err, I mean Philip in his excellent pointy beard--would find himself uncomfortably identifying with the scientist who built a life for himself in the US. So far he seems comfortable compartmentalized and not questioning the ethics of kidnapping.
I wonder if the show will delve at all into whether of not Philip or Elizabeth has any feelings about Jewish people themselves. I don't know how the overall anti-Semitism in the USSR would manifest in individual people.
Interesting that this was also the ep that brought up the KGB blackmailing someone for being gay, what with current issues in Russia regarding homosexuality obviously echoing the discrimination and oppression mentioned here regarding Jewish people. (Elizabeth's story also kind of echoes recent controversy about rape in the military too, I guess.)
I don't think it was meant to be a big hammer on those connections or anything, but it does seem right that this ep includes Paige getting into Christianity (which has its own biases against many people including Jewish people, gay people and Communists depending on the church), Soviet anti-Semitism, 80s homophobia, Soviet anti-religious bias...
In fact, I wonder if looking through it we'd find everybody paired up in terms of a bias presented and the people biased against also presented. Like we got Elizabeth ranting about Christians and Paige's Christian teen friends. Elizabeth ranting about commercialism and Philip and Henry's desire for a new car and Intellivision. Anton's talk about anti-Semitism with Anton himself (and I suspect Israeli agents). We didn't see gay people (that we know of) and didn't hear anti-Communist stuff from the Christians. But I suspect this will be a longer-running theme they're just starting on. Larick, if we meet him, will be an actual gay person. The kids in the church group might absolutely talk about how sad and immoral people are if they don't believe in God. And Paige probably would love to throw that back at Mom. I and others thought it was implied that one of the workers at the Travel Agency was gay, and of course we started the season with the Afghanis saying they were united with the US against the godless Communists--though of course today suddenly the differences between that God as perceived by the two countries are very very important.