theamericans | Episode discussion post: "The Great Patriotic War"

jae posting in

Aired:
25 April 2018 in the U.S. and Canada

This is a discussion post for episode 605 of The Americans, intended for viewers who are watching the show on the U.S./Canadian schedule. (Feel free to dive in to the discussion even if you're coming in late--and you should also feel free to start a new thread if it seems too daunting to read through what's already been posted first. If you're reading this at a point where you've already seen subsequent episodes, though, please take care to keep comments spoiler-free of anything that comes after season six, episode five.)

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From:

quantumreality

Paige getting the Soviet perspective on WW2 is interesting.

Claudia's not wrong about the hagiographic way the American school system plays up the USA's role in WW2 to the point of almost excluding even the Western Allies like the UK and France. That said, the Soviets also depended crucially on Lend-Lease aid flowing in through Siberia, and later Soviet leaders implicitly acknowledged this to themselves even if they didn't do so publicly.

The total death count, civilian and military, is over 20 million Soviets. That, in stark numbers, details the horrific personal cost of the Soviet citizenry in World War Two in hurling back the Nazi menace on the eastern front.

The shot of Paige just breathing as the sheer size of that number hits her was very well done, by the way.

That kind of thing leaves marks on a country - any country - and it certainly did for the USSR. It's not surprising both Elizabeth and Claudia have the Great Patriotic War as their common touchstone.

Incidentally, from what little I know of Slavic languages, the book Claudia shows Paige is either Czechoslovak, or Polish.

Watching this part, it almost feels like Paige is getting hammered with a huge dose of reality about the prices paid by some people in the world compared to her own relatively stable life.

From:

quantumreality

Elizabeth is fooling herself if she thinks Paige isn't already getting ideas and determined to put them into practice. She already had her trial run with Matt Beeman and now she's going for a second try in using her attractiveness to blind her would-be boyfriend to the truth of what she's "into him" for.

I remember wondering last season if Paige wouldn't wake up one day next to a guy realizing she just crossed another line, and if it would even matter anymore to her.

She's already lied, cheated, stolen, and abused people's trust in service to a foreign power. The only thing left on her list is to kill someone.

From:

quantumreality

I know it's pretty absurd to think of Elizabeth as having a M. E. H., but I seriously think she crossed some kind of Do Not Go There when she conceived that plan to fuck up Kimmy's life just to suborn Breland.

Yikes.

(Also, I don't think she's thinking this through long-term. Is the cost of getting one piece of intelligence that can be obtained through other means really worth the trade-off of losing all future Soviet Division recordings?)

Edited Date: 2018-04-26 04:42 am (UTC)

From:

saraqael

Well. Philip sure had a hell of a day. He was (IMO) honeypotted by his own wife which was followed the next morning by her telling him that he had to set up an innocent kid to be kidnapped and threatened/condemned to a life in a Communist prison (and more likely just killed). Then his own arrogant, idiot daughter implied that he’s a loser who couldn’t handle the rough stuff, prompting him to pick her up and slam her into a wall in the hopes of knocking some sense into her (nope!), and then, on top of all of that, he found out that his wife just slaughtered two people and left their bloody corpses to be found by a 7 year old child. Somewhere during all of that -- and I think it was Stan telling him about the 7 year old finding his dead bloody parents -- Philip finally found the line that he would not cross and made his decision to oppose Elizabeth and put a stop to whatever it is that she is doing. He chose the side of decency. Maybe he managed to save Kimmy when he told her goodbye. I’m doubtful that he managed to save Paige.

And speaking of Paige, I’m so glad that Philip knocked her down several pegs and showed her just how ridiculously self-deluded she has become but without actually saying so in words. “You’re not in to what me and Mom do, but I am,” she says. Wow, Paige. How cool you and Mom are! You’re like the coolest Soviet spy BFFs! And when you’re not out spying for the Motherland you’ve never seen, you get to hang around with your cool Mom and your other granny girlfriend and drink and giggle about having sex! What a great life! I know it’s what every young woman dreams of doing…when they’re not flipping out and beating up gross boys at the bar. Ugh. [I noted with some evil glee that when Claudia and Elizabeth were doing their level best to impart another history lesson about the bad old days in the Soviet Union – Millions killed! We traded sex for food! We ate rats! – all Paige wanted to do was drink and giggle about sex. All those lessons about dear old Russia are so, so not sinking in. Paige just wants to be cool like her cool Mom. The end.]

Sadly, I think the show meant for the bar scene to be some sort of empowering, Me Too type girl power moment for Paige, but that entire scene made me cringe. Paige isn’t a badass just because she’s been taught how to fight. She’s an incredibly messed up young woman who doesn’t know how to function in a normal life.

Sorry Teacups! You were a quirky, sometimes endearing, sometimes annoying couple, but now you’re just roadkill. I hope their fate isn’t meant to foreshadow the fate of the Jennings. Speaking of the Teacups…the agent that was guarding Gennady sure did get a good look at Elizabeth. Wonder if we’re going to see another suspect sketch of Elizabeth hanging on the wall at the FBI any time soon?

Am now officially worried about Oleg. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, and Tatjana was mightily scorned.

Random thought: I loved that when “Jim” called Kimmy to tell her that it was all over, Philip wasn’t wearing the Jim wig and disguise. It reminded me a lot of when he took off the Clark wig and showed Martha his true (Soviet spy) face. Of course, with Martha he did that in order to bind her to him even more tightly than before. This time, he unmasked himself to set Kimmy free, just as he set himself free.

Edited Date: 2018-04-26 05:58 am (UTC)

From:

lovingboth

The previously is screaming there will be more on the sex plots - Paige and Kimmy.

I'm surprised they're not already in Oklahoma.

A quick jump to conclusion from Elizabeth about someone else's motives.

Was 27 million the official figure for Great Patriotic War deaths at that point?

Oh ghod, not another 'I was at Stalingrad'. Anyone would think that there weren't any other battles or campaigns.

Stan bringing food in an 'I am visiting a safe house' way again.

Love the difference in the enthusiasm in watching ice hockey. 'Huh, what? Is it still going?'

Elizabeth is right about the presentation of history though.

'Oh, by the way mum, I happened to ignore your advice / instructions...'

Why on earth would anyone want to separate from him? :)

Is that a blatant guard standing outside the building?

'Are you suggesting we have sex?' look on Philip's face when she asks if he's more work to do.

How long has it been since she giggled like that?

'Were you using me?' look on Philip's face..

.. followed by a 'Are you fucking serious?' one as Elizabeth tells him the 'let's kidnap Kimmy in Greece' idea. Why does he need to go? They know what she looks like.

"I haven't asked for much.." apart from involving Paige in the work.

If you're going to kidnap her, why not do it now??

Not a good idea to go down dark stairways if you're defecting. Yes, it was a guard...

Ha at the friend's charming help. Time to demonstrate the self-defence? Ha yes. Elizabeth won't be too impressed at drawing attention to herself, but I was cheering her.

That was a very telegraphed kiss... and I was wrong.

Philip still doesn't want to do it though.

'Hey, you could clean the toilets at the Bureau...' Personnel wouldn't be a bad place if she is an agent.

"There's someone in there who knows how to see.. that's what time is for". Given the number of things Elizabeth does without thinking, it's interesting that this one is so hard for her.

Like the way he doesn't answer the "We have engineering schools".. and the way they're both saying they're honest when they're not, until later in the conversation when they don't need to say it.

"Fine." "Yep."

Be careful about who you annoy. True for Oleg and anyone near Paige.

"What's going on?" Ha, I knew she'd be annoyed.

"What??"

"Why would I sleep with them if I didn't like them?"

"Well, that's just great" - Philip has spent most of the episode saying one thing and meaning another.

Why close the window? She may need to leave in a hurry, and.. ha, they're having a reunion.

Do American safe houses normally have that much space to hide behind the fridge?

Why she doesn't want to kill both of them, I don't know. She's prepared to do it, obviously, but she wasn't going to do it.

Ha, I like the look on her face when she realises that their child is there.

I wonder if the contrast between Elizabeth breaking in to kill someone and Philip asking to come in to talk to his daughter is deliberate.

"Do you.. want anything?"

Bonus points for Philip for not saying how naive Paige is. Just showing her.

Well that was an interesting visit, and the second one he's made where he leaves feeling dirty.

I wonder if Elizabeth phoned the police.

First time in a while Stan's been reminded that this is a dangerous game.

Well, that's an interesting training session.

Stan at the door? Yes. Philip being told what Elizabeth was up to by Stan first is nice.

Ghod, Paige is naive. Of course you'd have sex with someone for food.

I thought Philip would back out of the Kimmy operation. Especially after everything else this episode.

"You're going to be ok" has loads of meanings, followed by what's the biggest betrayal by Philip yet to try and make sure she is...

From:

shapinglight

Did anyone else think that after killing Gennady and Sofia, when Elizabeth stood for a moment in the corridor outside the room where little Ilya was watching TV, she was trying to decide whether or not she should kill him too?

That was a very chilling moment in an episode full of them.

From:

treonb

The artist lady's sentence really struck me: "There's someone in there who knows how to see. But you have to put in the time."

I think that Elizabeth is doing a lot of stupid things, because she doesn't have the time to stop and see. For example, her Kimmy plan is extremely complicated and dangerous. But, as always, she sees no other way. There must be many other ways. Even if she insists to go the Bulgaria abduction route, there are other ways besides Philip.

Stan was kind of a disappointment. It was way too easy to follow him. He didn't even try to lose a tail.

It was interesting, though, how things were turned around. Now it was Elizabeth who was chasing Stan (in order to catch somebody else)

Paige really needed somebody to bring her down to earth. And she really has no idea who her father is and what he's capable of.

Elizabeth is now down to seducing Philip, and Philip almost went and did the same thing to Kimmy. At least he stopped himself in time.