I also loved the conversation because it also just felt like a very real conversation parents have with their children about responsibilities that you have when you get older (like deciding I'm just not in the mood to go to work today etc.)
Totally agree. I remember back in S2 when they had that confrontation with the Bible I thought Paige was very much in that adolescent stage where she wants the freedom and respect of being an adult but without the responsibilities that go with it. Iirc, one of the things that made me think that in that scene is when she eye-rolled and complained to Philip when he was so on edge that he roared back at her like he might an adult.
Also what I loved about the Philip / Elizabeth conversations in this episode was that it highlighted their competing ideologies pretty nicely in a way I hadn't seen in awhile and that felt like a callback to S1: Elizabeth seeing people as agents / Philip more as humans and Elizabeth focusing on the consumerism of EST while Philip is focusing on the emotional benefits.
Yeah, I loved this about it. Practically every moment of the argument had one of them saying something that was taken a different way by the other person because they simply weren't fighting about the same things. But ultimately Philip was totally challenging that worldview of Elizabeth's that she was desperately trying to double-down on for herself in this ep.
(I am hoping those two had another conversation during the 7 month period where they revise some of the hurtful things they said such as "I took you back after blah blah blah" --> that conversation also just felt like a typical couple conversation where a present-day thing brings up all these past hurts and wrongs --> Gabriel being all annoyed at their marital spats to Claudia was too funny).
Yes, they were both saying things they probably wouldn't really agree to if they weren't angry, but I particularly loved that version of events for Elizabeth. That it was about Philip being a philanderer and a liar and her taking his cheating ass back.
Interestingly, too, that Philip focused on the "man you love" being Gregory and Elizabeth being "disappointed" that Philip wasn't somebody else. He wasn't fighting that specific phrasing of events (no mention of him being angry/hurt over her tattling on him or her wanting him back, for instance). Other people have seen Philip as very at fault in that argument for telling Elizabeth she can't think about Gregory, but I didn't think that's what he was saying at all. I thought Elizabeth was actually the nastier of the two in the fight. Philip's arguments weren't really about personal flaws or sins of Elizabeth's as much as they could have been.
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timeasmymeasure
Jennings fights
Date: 2016-05-05 06:18 pm (UTC)Totally agree. I remember back in S2 when they had that confrontation with the Bible I thought Paige was very much in that adolescent stage where she wants the freedom and respect of being an adult but without the responsibilities that go with it. Iirc, one of the things that made me think that in that scene is when she eye-rolled and complained to Philip when he was so on edge that he roared back at her like he might an adult.
Yeah, I loved this about it. Practically every moment of the argument had one of them saying something that was taken a different way by the other person because they simply weren't fighting about the same things. But ultimately Philip was totally challenging that worldview of Elizabeth's that she was desperately trying to double-down on for herself in this ep.
Yes, they were both saying things they probably wouldn't really agree to if they weren't angry, but I particularly loved that version of events for Elizabeth. That it was about Philip being a philanderer and a liar and her taking his cheating ass back.
Interestingly, too, that Philip focused on the "man you love" being Gregory and Elizabeth being "disappointed" that Philip wasn't somebody else. He wasn't fighting that specific phrasing of events (no mention of him being angry/hurt over her tattling on him or her wanting him back, for instance). Other people have seen Philip as very at fault in that argument for telling Elizabeth she can't think about Gregory, but I didn't think that's what he was saying at all. I thought Elizabeth was actually the nastier of the two in the fight. Philip's arguments weren't really about personal flaws or sins of Elizabeth's as much as they could have been.