theamericans | Episode discussion post: "Tchaikovsky"

jae posting in

Aired:
4 April 2018 in the U.S. and Canada

This is a discussion post for episode 602 of The Americans, intended for viewers who are watching the show on the U.S./Canadian schedule. (Feel free to dive in to the discussion even if you're coming in late--and you should also feel free to start a new thread if it seems too daunting to read through what's already been posted first. If you're reading this at a point where you've already seen subsequent episodes, though, please take care to keep comments spoiler-free of anything that comes after season six, episode two.)

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From:

selenak

New thread, since it's inspired by several statements by several members, and also by the fact I sometimes feel like the sole member who actually likes the character. (Obvious disclaimer: doesn't mean I think she's a good person. She's a decades-long KGB professional whose idea of "taking care" of Robert's hapless wife was to shoot her.)

1.) Regarding why Elizabeth doesn't hate her anymore the way she did in s1 and on the contrary, trusts her. Well, first of all, Elizabeth's seething resentment against Claudia in s1 to me always struck me as at least partly deflection and projection on Elizabeth's part. Because it was far easier to hate Claudia for that cruel loyalty test put on Philip and herself than to hate the Centre/Mother Russia, never mind that Claudia acted on orders sanctioned by, among others, General Zhukov whom Elizabeth idolized. Now the repeated digs re: Philip otoh were clearly a Claudia idea, and Elizabeth was right to recognize them as such, but: it would not have worked if Philip hadn't actually lied to Elizabeth about the whole Irina encounter, and if Claudia hadn't (correctly) been able to predict he would. However, the first season didn't end there. It ended with Elizabeth and Philip (along with probably a great part of the first time audience) wrongly believing that Claudia had set them up for a suicide mission, only to find out that on the contrary, Claudia had their backs and did everything she could to save their lives despite the fact they'd caused trouble for her back home (not a thing to be taken lightly in Russia). The scene between Arkady and Claudia was the first time we saw Claudia not from E & P's pov, and I think Claudia's reply to Arkady, that as long as she's round E & P are her responsibility and thus she'll do all to keep them alive, is significant when it comes to how Claudia sees her professional ethics. This isn't mutually exclusive with, had she been ordered to, shooting either Elizabeth or Philip at that point, mind.

2.) Claudia very clearly is, as an s2 character tells E & P when they express concern for her, "an old warhorse" good at surviving, but also with an ingrained war mentality. I mean, the woman survived Stalingrad at age 14. But I don't think she's flexible enough to adapt to a time without a clearly defined enemy. This being said, I also don't see her as solely defined by her ideology. Starting with the basics: we see her enjoying her food (and computer games) in s1; we also know of at least two strong attachments she had that superceded her commitment to the Cause. One was Zhukov, but there she's still able to maintain her control. The way Claudia takes her revenge differs from Elizabeth (trying to) take her revenge for his death is strikingly different; it's the one time Elizabeth openly goes against orders, whereas Claudia does it in secret, and in a way that's not traceable to her. Otoh, in the interlude between s1 and when P & E see her again in s2, she's made the mistake of falling in love and talking too much - a beginner's mistake, unlike her, but she did it, and if you add to it the information we hear later, that when originally returning to Russia she tried in vain to connect to her biological family, I think it's saying something about Claudia's loneliness and no longer buried need for human contact.

3.) Claudia seems to have been friendly colleagues with Gabriel, but he's gone back. Given the nature of the KGB, I doubt she has many other surviving friends, let alone people she actually loved. Her attempt to form a relationship outside of work misfired badly. Her biological family are strangers. It's not surprising, therefore, that she tries her level best to have Elizabeth and Paige emotionally attached to her. There's the professional aspect, of course - Elizabeth, before Philip quit, never worked alone, without a partner, and she does need someone to confide in, their antagonistic s1 relationship had been a disaster while the more friendly relationship in s2 when Claudia was at her most insecure had been a success, and Paige needs supervision other than Elizabeth. But there's also the fact that Elizabeth and Paige are, from Claudia's pov, safe to get attached to. Which is why I actually believe she's not (yet?) aware that Elizabeth post Mexico is under commit-suicide-if-captured orders. I'm not saying she would try to dissuade Elizabeth if she knew; though I think with Claudia, at this point it could go either way.

4.) One last point: the Tchaikovsky record. I don't think this is Claudia being nostalgic about the war. She explicitly says she bought this record after the war, and that for a long time it was the only thing she could bear listening to. So for her, the association isn't war or triumph, it's recovery. Just why she wants to share this with Elizabeth and Paige is ambigous, beyond general "make Paige attached to all things Russian" policy. But it's worth noting both the idea to watch a current day Russian movie, Moscow without Tears, and now the Tchaikovsky recording came from Claudia during a time where Elizabeth is, in her reports to Claudia, more and more bothered and disturbed by the dying artist she's posing as a nurse to, and specifically by the idea of art. Both movies and music are art. You'd have to be blind not to notice Elizabeth is in a bad state right now, and while she's, from Claudia's pov, ideologically reliable, she's clearly not in a good emotional condition, and I wouldn't exclude the possibility that this movie-and-music programm is Claudia's idea of trying to reconnect Elizabeth to her emotions.

From:

shapinglight

I like Claudia.

I wouldn't be altogether surprised if -assuming all the facts were available to her - she came down on the side of Arkady, Oleg and Philip in the KGB factional fighting about Gorbachev.

Though I wouldn't be altogether surprised if it were completely the other way around too. ;)

From:

sistermagpie

I can't imagine her coming down on their side. She's already expressed the exact attitude of the other side on her own when she talked about how you can't negotiate with the Americans. Not only does she seem to have a natural war-time attitude towards the world (not surprising given her history) but she's got a consistently knee-jerk "America=bad and USSR=good" pov and there's really not much for her in Oleg's USSR.

From:

sistermagpie

Regarding why Elizabeth doesn't hate her anymore the way she did in s1 and on the contrary, trusts her. Well, first of all, Elizabeth's seething resentment against Claudia in s1 to me always struck me as at least partly deflection and projection on Elizabeth's part.

I agree, but to me it's sadder than that. Like Elizabeth should have listened to her instincts back then. But she couldn't. Claudia was Elizabeth's future. She's exactly what Elizabeth thought she should be. Which is fine--Claudia's not a problem in herself. But if you can't let her into your family without making the statement that you have put the Centre above your family.

Paige "taking to" Claudia and Elizabeth seeing her as the natural mentor to take over represents both Paige and Elizabeth embracing that same choice.

She obviously has the same conflicting emotions that Elizabeth does and acts on them exactly the same way. She's a hardliner about rules but will break them herself when she has the emotional need. She does want relationships with people.

But I don't think it's a coincidence that Claudia becomes "family" in the season where Elizabeth starts replacing family with the work. She knows Claudia and Philip are the ones that have always had a strained relationship, but she still gives in to her desire to confide in her, talk about Philip with her, talk about the kids with her.

If the show is showing Claudia trying to connect Elizabeth with her emotions, I would hope the show is not planning to give her an unearned success there. You can't have it both ways where you're the character who's all about how the cause is the most important thing and then also have her be the person who can reconnect the burnt out person to life. Movies and music are not the thing that connect Elizabeth to her emotions. It's Philip and the kids (as kids, not as recruits) that did that. The very things Claudia continues to encourage her to reject because that's her job. That's Philip's thing (like when he got her to Germany to see her mother).

Just as an aside, I don't dislike Claudia. I just don't think she can ever be a neutral character.

Edited Date: 2018-04-06 05:07 pm (UTC)

From:

saraqael

But I don't think it's a coincidence that Claudia becomes "family" in the season where Elizabeth starts replacing family with the work.

I disagree that Elizabeth is starting to replace her family with work. IMO, for Elizabeth, the family has always just been part of her work. That doesn't mean that she doesn't love them, but unlike Philip, I don't think that Elizabeth has ever drawn a line between the family and her job. The children were part of the job, meant to enhance their cover and breed the next generation of more perfect spies. We know that Elizabeth loves them, but she's always always loved the Cause more. Now that she's facing her own likely death, of course she hands off her daughter/work assignment to her supervisor/Claudia and says, 'if I die, you finish the project.' In fact, Elizabeth hates everything about America so much, she thinks that Paige becoming a spy is Paige's best possible fate, and handing Paige over to Claudia is the very best thing possible that she can do as a mother for her daughter. She's rescued Paige from becoming a 'weak, soft' American and fulfilled her job to breed a second generation spy.

There is so little time left in this series for Elizabeth to finally learn that it's okay to live a life that is not devoted 100% to ideology. The show is dropping suicide pill shaped anvils on her head that if she doesn't wake up and choose life for herself (and now for her daughter), she is doomed (and so now is Paige). We're also coming right down to the wire about whether or not she will be able to separate her family from her ideology.

Right from the start Philip said he would be okay with allowing his kids to live out their lives as Americans. He only wants what's best for his kids in terms of educational and economic opportunities. Happy Americans...happy Russians... he doesn't care so long as his kids are happy. Elizabeth puts ideology first. She's delighted that Paige was recruited and she's perfectly content to allow Claudia to continue to train Paige. Elizabeth wants her daughter to be an ideological reflection of herself, even if that dooms Paige to be unfit to be an American or a Russian.

From:

sistermagpie

I disagree that Elizabeth is starting to replace her family with work. IMO, for Elizabeth, the family has always just been part of her work. That doesn't mean that she doesn't love them, but unlike Philip, I don't think that Elizabeth has ever drawn a line between the family and her job. The children were part of the job, meant to enhance their cover and breed the next generation of more perfect spies.

Absolutely, but I was specifically referring to the present situation where Elizabeth is not talking to Philip, Paige has become a trainee and Henry is gone (and she doesn't go to see his game). Her personal life is far more compromised than it was before, which I think fits the description of replacing her family with work in a new way. We've never seen her this alienated from everyone and everything not work related.

Elizabeth always felt she should put the ideology first and there was a balance between how she fit her family within that, but with Philip no longer her confidante, Paige a trainee, Henry not in the picture, and Claudia the handler being a grandmother, that's a huge change.

There is so little time left in this series for Elizabeth to finally learn that it's okay to live a life that is not devoted 100% to ideology. The show is dropping suicide pill shaped anvils on her head that if she doesn't wake up and choose life for herself (and now for her daughter), she is doomed (and so now is Paige). We're also coming right down to the wire about whether or not she will be able to separate her family from her ideology.

I agree--I think this extreme situation is part of that. Because it's not just that she's coming to the time where she needs to make the right choice as has been the case in the past, imo. At this point she has made more extreme choices in the direction of ideology--just as, tbf, Philip has made more extreme choices on the side of family. But Philip in this ep, imo, is already consciously thinking about needing to get more in balance. Elizabeth shows signs of the same thing, maybe, in bringing up Paige's training with Philip, but she's gotten herself tangled up in far more lies and secrets with her choices.

Even the secret that Philip is keeping seems like something he would have immediately told until Elizabeth's attitude and hostility put him off. Not that this makes it less of a secret, of course.

From:

saraqael

...but I was specifically referring to the present situation where Elizabeth is not talking to Philip, Paige has become a trainee and Henry is gone (and she doesn't go to see his game). Her personal life is far more compromised than it was before, which I think fits the description of replacing her family with work in a new way. We've never seen her this alienated from everyone and everything not work related.

Oh, I see. I misunderstood your comment the first time. I agree with what you've said here.

I think that Elizabeth would like to be more in harmony with Philip and I'm certain that he still wants to find a way to tell her that she's in danger even though he was quite flabbergasted at the way she snapped at him. Married couples do take out their frustrations on each other, but I'm sure that Elizabeth revealed some of her real feelings to him, too because she is so frayed. (Particularly when she said she didn't want to hear about his job or about Henry.) I hope that their love for each other draws them together again. I'm not sure it will be enough to save Elizabeth though. Even if she does have a breakthrough and realizes that she has a right to just live out a normal life like everyone else, there's no guarantee that will happen.

From:

sistermagpie

Even if she does have a breakthrough and realizes that she has a right to just live out a normal life like everyone else, there's no guarantee that will happen.

I wonder about Elizabeth's exact head space now. That is, is it that she doesn't think she has the right to live a normal life? Or that she doesn't value one? It seems like at the moment her justification isn't guilty at not doing this but the idea that it makes her life superior to others. (I mean this is what she's telling herself rather than necessarily what she really thinks.)

Of course we've seen that she can value normal life. It seems like maybe that's where she's gotten the real joy in her lie. But she's in a bad place now, probably doubling down on all the decisions she's made to get here, and that's the sort of thing that's coming out of her mouth. Like when she can't believe the artist would waste her life making art--though she seems almost afraid of the art.

It may seem like the difference doesn't matter but it makes a difference to how she works through it. Especially if, as was mentioned in the above comments, at the heart of it is the feeling she's not worthy of love if she lets go.

From:

From:

jae - Date: 2018-04-09 05:48 pm (UTC) - Expand

From:

jae

and also by the fact I sometimes feel like the sole member who actually likes the character.

FWIW, I like all of the characters.

-J

From:

quantumreality

I'm personally feeling a little protective over Paige because she's getting a bad rap this season, heh.

From:

jae

I feel protective over whoever's getting crapped on at the moment, so yeah. :)

-J

From:

saraqael

I started this season totally soured on Paige, but after this last episode I've totally got my Paige love back, for the craziest reason though. The show was pitching how great she's doing as junior spy and that grated on me because she's clearly not doing a great job. But this last episode with her utterly blowing her cover and running towards the sounds of the gunshots while yelling, "Mom!!!" made it so obvious that she's doing all of this out of love for her mom (whether she herself realizes this or not) was really endearing to me. Poor Paige. In so many ways, she's still just the little kid wandering around her weird house trying to make sense out of her faux-family. Poor kid.

From:

sistermagpie

so obvious that she's doing all of this out of love for her mom (whether she herself realizes this or not)

Sounds like somebody else we know. I've always thought that was at the heart of Elizabeth as well. She had to co-sign her mother's choice to "not blink" in sending her off, always feels the need to present that as just the way a mother "should be" (remember one of Paige's first questions about her grandmother was whether Elizabeth would ever do that to her).

Plus there's that memory of her mother saying that the ceremonies or soldiers weren't for her father because he was a coward. I always took that as Elizabeth learning that if she ever faltered she wouldn't be loved. Philip was the first person who didn't seem to value her primarily for being a good soldier.

I really really hope this is where they're going with the Paige story. There's, imo, very little dramatic interest in Paige being a badass spy even if Elizabeth ultimately sees she shouldn't make the same choices. Elizabeth, imo, needs the challenge of difference. Plus not only is Paige American etc. but she has a second parent who offers an alternate way, even if she instinctively responds better to her mother's.

From:

saraqael

Yes I agree that Elizabeth is equally motivated by love for her mother and wanting to make her proud as she is by being a 'true believer' in Soviet ideology.

From:

sistermagpie

One more thought about this, but I think this is also underlined in all the Paige/Claudia/Elizabeth scenes where they're literally trying to teach Paige to love Russia and hate America, whether or not one would put it in such an extreme way. There's a pattern of focus on all the ways Paige can be like them and none on how Paige might be independently.

Even the music conversation starts with Elizabeth saying Paige's preference about music and Claudia dismissing it and being sure she just needs to hear this music. It's a cliche thing for an older person to say about a younger person, but in this case there really is an aggressive molding going on here, and an erasure of anything about Paige that could conflict with that.

Paige herself responds better to stuff about her mom--she remembers seeing the Nutcracker and the character in the movie reminds her of her mother. She apparently has taken to Claudia too, but that might be mostly because of how she's connected to her mother.

From:

saraqael

I appreciate all of the characters for who they are, even if I don't necessarily 'like' or approve of them all of the time.

From:

jae

It doesn't occur to me to even think about who to "approve" or "disapprove" of in terms of my own personal morality. Either the show has convinced me to sympathize with each of its characters on their own merits or not (and so far, so good).

-J

From:

saraqael

I totally sympathize with them but I still disapprove of things they've done. I disapprove of murdering anyone over ideology. I disapprove of breaking apart families over ideology. I love these characters but they've done some very bad things. Whether the character believes that they did something awful to serve the greater good is irrelevant to me.

I still want them all to have a happy ending though. :P

From:

From:

andy73 - Date: 2022-06-21 05:52 am (UTC) - Expand

From:

treonb

We've got movies, music, drawings and sculpture. Elizabeth sees it all and doesn't get it or doesn't care for it. They're obviously going somewhere with this, though I have no idea what.

From:

sistermagpie

Yes, so far it seems like another EST to Elizabeth. It connects her to the part of her that's alive and as such her instinct is to kill it with fire.

We also even had dancing--she mentioned going to the ballet with Paige (who also seems a bit separate from art, but not as aggressively) and Philip line-dancing.