Fan community for FX&#39;s The Americans

So the FBI's onto Oleg, and I was mistaken about his posting back in the USSR - apparently he got himself into the Ministry of Transportation instead.

Stan's back in the Criminal Investigation Division, and seemingly getting on fairly well. He's also discovering the pitfalls of having to be a handler for an important Soviet asset having trouble with his wife. And on top of that, Sofia is fed up with Gennadi and wants out.

Elizabeth seems very somber this episode, what with weighty topics like euthanasia, her own mortality and making sure Paige could keep going, and trying to juggle her assets.

Speaking of Paige, she did mistake the guy's name, but Philip, with 20+ years of experience behind him, notes that it's an occupational hazard.

Reagan's Alzheimer's gets a passing mention!

Claudia slipping into the grandmother role with Paige is a nice bit of acting.

The haunting air of the opening strains of Tchaikovsky perfectly fit the mood for this episod.

And now Paige asks about using sex. :O

I do not like where this is going.

"So it never happens?" "No."

surejan.gif

Elizabeth tries to explain the shades of grey the world takes on, which is kind of ironic in light of *her* ideological viewpoints.

Elizabeth also really shows how good an actor she is when she fakes being scared of the gun :O

And yikes, it goes sideways :O Paige witnesses it!

I wonder how this will shake out next week :O

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Speaking of Paige, she did mistake the guy's name, but Philip, with 20+ years of experience behind him, notes that it's an occupational hazard.

I don't think the point there was that it really was just an occupational hazard. Philip assumed she wanted reassurance and gave it to her. Elizabeth's response that she was a 'fast learner' seemed to imply a lingering anxiety. As was her bringing it up in the first place (as presumably the easiest problem).

I mean, he's not lying. It does happen. But I don't think it's really about Elizabeth just remembering this mild thing and Philip reminding her it's nothing and that's tath.

Then in this episode Paige runs into the action screaming "Mom." Meanwhile Elizabeth's still telling anyone who'll listen that Paige's life will mostly just be a 9 to 5 job, which seems to be a fantasy. She's lying to just about everybody.

It just seems like Elizabeth's in such a bad place here, rejecting anything that's not about her cause, that any sign of doubt on her part is a healthy thing. Claudia's own grandchildren aren't buying what she's selling--and Claudia's not being paid to keep them in line.

Edited Date: 2018-04-06 03:09 am (UTC)

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I think the calculator thing shows Philip's background and generation. If you were circa 40 yo in 1987, you grew up with slide rules and *maybe* mechanical adding machines. So Philip might not be used to using spreadsheets to track all of his invoices right down to a line by line day to day thing, but would probably be doing his P&L on a weekly or monthly basis.

(today I think it'd be almost routine, since you could separate out the accounts payable and receivable by date, etc)

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I'm really not looking forward to the absolute kicked-puppy look that P&E would get in 1991 knowing it all crashed down around their ears.

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I think Paige not having ever needed to relate her personal survival to her nation's survival in a way that Elizabeth had, is really the key. Paige could still do what Elizabeth does, but coming from a place of privilege means she will have to work a lot harder at maintaining the kind of mental discipline that comes easy now to Elizabeth.

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I'm wondering what it might look like from Paige's POV if she gets arrested. Would she even have a trial? Or would she just be "disappeared" for a months-long interrogation followed by summary execution?

There are some illuminating symmetries to Nina's situation here, too, I think.

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Right--but really, why would she? Elizabeth (and Philip) had so many things in their life that explained their commitment. Imo, Paige just doesn't have the same reason. That's part of why the story seems kind of creepy. It's not just that I as a viewer knew the USSR is coming to an end, but that it's just clear that Elizabeth and Claudia can't create an experience for Paige that really gives her a reason to transform that way, imo.

In fact, some of the things their doing just validate how she already is.

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beer_good_foamy

Or a lone Elizabeth watching McDonald's set up shop at the Moskva River, to the tune of "Take Me To The River"...

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selenak

New thread, since it's inspired by several statements by several members, and also by the fact I sometimes feel like the sole member who actually likes the character. (Obvious disclaimer: doesn't mean I think she's a good person. She's a decades-long KGB professional whose idea of "taking care" of Robert's hapless wife was to shoot her.)

1.) Regarding why Elizabeth doesn't hate her anymore the way she did in s1 and on the contrary, trusts her. Well, first of all, Elizabeth's seething resentment against Claudia in s1 to me always struck me as at least partly deflection and projection on Elizabeth's part. Because it was far easier to hate Claudia for that cruel loyalty test put on Philip and herself than to hate the Centre/Mother Russia, never mind that Claudia acted on orders sanctioned by, among others, General Zhukov whom Elizabeth idolized. Now the repeated digs re: Philip otoh were clearly a Claudia idea, and Elizabeth was right to recognize them as such, but: it would not have worked if Philip hadn't actually lied to Elizabeth about the whole Irina encounter, and if Claudia hadn't (correctly) been able to predict he would. However, the first season didn't end there. It ended with Elizabeth and Philip (along with probably a great part of the first time audience) wrongly believing that Claudia had set them up for a suicide mission, only to find out that on the contrary, Claudia had their backs and did everything she could to save their lives despite the fact they'd caused trouble for her back home (not a thing to be taken lightly in Russia). The scene between Arkady and Claudia was the first time we saw Claudia not from E & P's pov, and I think Claudia's reply to Arkady, that as long as she's round E & P are her responsibility and thus she'll do all to keep them alive, is significant when it comes to how Claudia sees her professional ethics. This isn't mutually exclusive with, had she been ordered to, shooting either Elizabeth or Philip at that point, mind.

2.) Claudia very clearly is, as an s2 character tells E & P when they express concern for her, "an old warhorse" good at surviving, but also with an ingrained war mentality. I mean, the woman survived Stalingrad at age 14. But I don't think she's flexible enough to adapt to a time without a clearly defined enemy. This being said, I also don't see her as solely defined by her ideology. Starting with the basics: we see her enjoying her food (and computer games) in s1; we also know of at least two strong attachments she had that superceded her commitment to the Cause. One was Zhukov, but there she's still able to maintain her control. The way Claudia takes her revenge differs from Elizabeth (trying to) take her revenge for his death is strikingly different; it's the one time Elizabeth openly goes against orders, whereas Claudia does it in secret, and in a way that's not traceable to her. Otoh, in the interlude between s1 and when P & E see her again in s2, she's made the mistake of falling in love and talking too much - a beginner's mistake, unlike her, but she did it, and if you add to it the information we hear later, that when originally returning to Russia she tried in vain to connect to her biological family, I think it's saying something about Claudia's loneliness and no longer buried need for human contact.

3.) Claudia seems to have been friendly colleagues with Gabriel, but he's gone back. Given the nature of the KGB, I doubt she has many other surviving friends, let alone people she actually loved. Her attempt to form a relationship outside of work misfired badly. Her biological family are strangers. It's not surprising, therefore, that she tries her level best to have Elizabeth and Paige emotionally attached to her. There's the professional aspect, of course - Elizabeth, before Philip quit, never worked alone, without a partner, and she does need someone to confide in, their antagonistic s1 relationship had been a disaster while the more friendly relationship in s2 when Claudia was at her most insecure had been a success, and Paige needs supervision other than Elizabeth. But there's also the fact that Elizabeth and Paige are, from Claudia's pov, safe to get attached to. Which is why I actually believe she's not (yet?) aware that Elizabeth post Mexico is under commit-suicide-if-captured orders. I'm not saying she would try to dissuade Elizabeth if she knew; though I think with Claudia, at this point it could go either way.

4.) One last point: the Tchaikovsky record. I don't think this is Claudia being nostalgic about the war. She explicitly says she bought this record after the war, and that for a long time it was the only thing she could bear listening to. So for her, the association isn't war or triumph, it's recovery. Just why she wants to share this with Elizabeth and Paige is ambigous, beyond general "make Paige attached to all things Russian" policy. But it's worth noting both the idea to watch a current day Russian movie, Moscow without Tears, and now the Tchaikovsky recording came from Claudia during a time where Elizabeth is, in her reports to Claudia, more and more bothered and disturbed by the dying artist she's posing as a nurse to, and specifically by the idea of art. Both movies and music are art. You'd have to be blind not to notice Elizabeth is in a bad state right now, and while she's, from Claudia's pov, ideologically reliable, she's clearly not in a good emotional condition, and I wouldn't exclude the possibility that this movie-and-music programm is Claudia's idea of trying to reconnect Elizabeth to her emotions.

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I'm not sure Philip would feel that way. I suspect he'd be secretly relieved.

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Philip assumed she wanted reassurance and gave it to her. Elizabeth's response that she was a 'fast learner' seemed to imply a lingering anxiety. As was her bringing it up in the first place (as presumably the easiest problem).

I was so taken aback during that exchange - not by Elizabeth lying to Philip but by Philip seeming so at ease with the idea of Paige being involved in the spy business at all.

I accept this could well be because I didn't have time to rewatch season 5 and can't remember how the conversation between Philip and Elizabeth about Paige ended then.

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I like Claudia.

I wouldn't be altogether surprised if -assuming all the facts were available to her - she came down on the side of Arkady, Oleg and Philip in the KGB factional fighting about Gorbachev.

Though I wouldn't be altogether surprised if it were completely the other way around too. ;)

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jae

I actually don't think this is/will be true at all. There's a difference between thinking your country has flaws and looking forward to its demise. I'm sure in 1987 he'd be a reformer (if he were there), but he wouldn't ever wish to see his country collapse. You can't make the kinds of sacrifices he's made for his country and wish to see it destroyed.

-J

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jae

This song would have never occurred to me to use (I think because I haven't thought about it in decades), but it was just SO PERFECT, wasn't it?

-J

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I assume it's just that Philip knows she's being trained. He was always committed to letting her choose for herself. So now it's not news. He's made peace with it. Maybe he tries not to think about it just like he tries to not think about other things.

He just adapted to the new stress.

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Regarding why Elizabeth doesn't hate her anymore the way she did in s1 and on the contrary, trusts her. Well, first of all, Elizabeth's seething resentment against Claudia in s1 to me always struck me as at least partly deflection and projection on Elizabeth's part.

I agree, but to me it's sadder than that. Like Elizabeth should have listened to her instincts back then. But she couldn't. Claudia was Elizabeth's future. She's exactly what Elizabeth thought she should be. Which is fine--Claudia's not a problem in herself. But if you can't let her into your family without making the statement that you have put the Centre above your family.

Paige "taking to" Claudia and Elizabeth seeing her as the natural mentor to take over represents both Paige and Elizabeth embracing that same choice.

She obviously has the same conflicting emotions that Elizabeth does and acts on them exactly the same way. She's a hardliner about rules but will break them herself when she has the emotional need. She does want relationships with people.

But I don't think it's a coincidence that Claudia becomes "family" in the season where Elizabeth starts replacing family with the work. She knows Claudia and Philip are the ones that have always had a strained relationship, but she still gives in to her desire to confide in her, talk about Philip with her, talk about the kids with her.

If the show is showing Claudia trying to connect Elizabeth with her emotions, I would hope the show is not planning to give her an unearned success there. You can't have it both ways where you're the character who's all about how the cause is the most important thing and then also have her be the person who can reconnect the burnt out person to life. Movies and music are not the thing that connect Elizabeth to her emotions. It's Philip and the kids (as kids, not as recruits) that did that. The very things Claudia continues to encourage her to reject because that's her job. That's Philip's thing (like when he got her to Germany to see her mother).

Just as an aside, I don't dislike Claudia. I just don't think she can ever be a neutral character.

Edited Date: 2018-04-06 05:07 pm (UTC)

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I can't imagine her coming down on their side. She's already expressed the exact attitude of the other side on her own when she talked about how you can't negotiate with the Americans. Not only does she seem to have a natural war-time attitude towards the world (not surprising given her history) but she's got a consistently knee-jerk "America=bad and USSR=good" pov and there's really not much for her in Oleg's USSR.

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jae

and also by the fact I sometimes feel like the sole member who actually likes the character.

FWIW, I like all of the characters.

-J

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You can't make the kinds of sacrifices he's made for his country and wish to see it destroyed.

It wasn't really the Soviet Union as a country I was talking about as such. More the system that Philip works for. Or the ideology, or whatever. I'm not sure he would see them as the same thing any more.

Edited Date: 2018-04-06 05:31 pm (UTC)

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Maybe he tries not to think about it just like he tries to not think about other things.

I guess so. I actually felt quite annoyed with him during the line dancing scene in episode one for enjoying himself while Elizabeth (and Paige) are out there in the line of fire (as it were). Very unfair of me, I know.

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I think that's a normal reaction (not to mention, it's more enjoyable for me as a viewer watching him be a spy). But one helpful key is to remember that they're enjoying themselves too, even if their enjoyment is self-destructive. And knowing that he's the one that's going to go to them rather than vice versa.

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I almost wonder if they lived until the present if Philip would be more bummed about it than Elizabeth. I mean, Elizabeth might get some satisfaction out of seeing how democracy crumbled as if that proved her right.

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I'm personally feeling a little protective over Paige because she's getting a bad rap this season, heh.

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jae

I feel protective over whoever's getting crapped on at the moment, so yeah. :)

-J

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