theamericans | Question of the week #50

I've thought and thought about this, but I don't have a specific answer. I guess I think the specifics aren't really the point in this case, though, just what he was trying to do in general, which is be completely open with the one person he feels knows him (like he said to Sandra at est).

The tragic part of the situation, of course, is that not only is he not able to actually be open when he tries to do so (in that he can't actually put his feelings into words), she's also not able to hear him anyway because she's too busy worrying about Reagan and the weight of the world on their shoulders.

-J

Edited 2015-06-10 13:29 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought the same thing, that the real point is that he's trying to take EST's advice and get in touch with how he feels and communicate it to Elizabeth. But it's not that easy since not only does she have other concerns but he's still a stranger to himself.

There seem to be a lot of people who feel that this will lead to Philip using *Sandra* as his confidante, but to me it seems like he's very much aware that he can't be honest with someone who doesn't know who he really is. That's just a non-starter.

Yeah, I actually think he quite clearly rejected the idea of confiding in Sandra.

If he can't bring himself to confide in Elizabeth, though--whether it's because of interruptions or because of all the ways he doesn't understand himself in the first place--then he's kind of screwed. That's so sad.

-J

That's so sad.

That's so Philip!

I have a hard time imaging that Philip could or would use Sandra as his confidante. It was apparent to me that both of them were there at the EST seminar because they're seeking some sort of insight into how to live more truthful and authentic lives, but that doesn't mean that Philip is going to suddenly start confiding his deepest, most intimate (and as we've seen, incoherent) personal thoughts to her. She's essentially a stranger. The two women he did try to reveal himself to there at the end of the season were his two wives: Martha and Elizabeth. He could have just killed Martha. Instead, he's taken off his disguise to show his real face to her. That was an insanely risky thing to do. At the same time, he tries to voice feelings and thoughts to Elizabeth that are still so half formed in his own mind that he can't even find the words to express himself. Revealing any doubts or mental cracks to Elizabeth is as risky as taking off his disguise in front of Martha. I just can't imagine that Philip would take this sort of risk with an outsider, no matter how sympathetic she may be.

Yes, if he even tried to confide something abstractly to Sandra he'd have to figure out some cover story for it to make it fake. And how can he explain his problems without explaining that he's living a lie and killing people etc. It's pointless without that.

I hadn't thought about the risk in talking to Elizabeth but yeah, it really does say something that he's trying to tell her how feels like shit all the time--that does show an amazing amount of trust in her. She's certainly not the first person I'd think of to talk through my doubts about what I was doing. It's especially risky since he doesn't even really know what he's trying to say--who knows what could come out of his mouth?

It struck me that Elizabeth, like Gabriel, sensed that something was wrong with Philip, but Elizabeth rationalized it as Philip having confused emotional feelings for Martha. That's something she could easily understand and forgive. If Philip were suddenly reveal to her that he no longer knows how to believe in their mission, I doubt that Elizabeth would support him. She is 100% heart, mind and soul about the mission. She can't even tolerate the fact that Philip admits to liking the comforts of the Western lifestyle.

Philip told Sandra that Elizabeth was the person he could be authentic with, but that's not entirely true. He can't entirely trust her because she values the mission more than she values him. He needs it to be true though, or he will continue to crack apart. I think that they do love each other, but Elizabeth loves the mission more than she loves him.

He's in a terrible place right now. The one person he is closest to and relies on the most would very likely turn on him if he was able to articulate that he's lost his faith in their joint mission. In a strange way, I think he's actually safer confiding his thoughts and emotions with Martha right now. It would help convince her that he does love her. It would give him an outlet to talk about his doubts and desires, and she could still be dispatched if necessary so his secrets would be safe.

If Elizabeth could even just be equally devoted to him and to the mission, I think that Philip would eventually be okay. Sadly, unless Elizabeth undergoes some amazing emotional growth next season, I don't see that happening.

This is pretty much what I took from it - that he's trying to be the best and most honest person he can be right now, but what actually happened when he tried to express himself fully was basically incoherent, jagged-edged longing. I don't even think he necessarily knows what for, exactly (and especially not, like, coherently and explicitly - if he had the words, he'd have used them then). I think it's more amorphous than that, more just this overwhelming wanting for things to be different. To be less painful.

I keep changing my mind over how much I think Elizabeth would understand if she'd not been distracted, though. :)

I keep changing my mind over how much I think Elizabeth would understand if she'd not been distracted, though. :)

That's a good question. Well, first of all, she herself says she doesn't understand what he's saying. And the fact that she's distracted also shows she's not realizing this is VERY IMPORTANT.

With all due respect to Reagan and the fact that this was pre-dvr and pre-internet. She could have gotten his speech later.

If/when Philip is able to coherently express the thoughts and feelings that he's experiencing, I suspect that Elizabeth would only be sympathetic to a point, but she'd expect him to pull himself together and carry on. Otherwise, he'd be a liability to the cause. IMO, Elizabeth is still duty first, personal life second. She doesn't suffer from the same doubts and questions that Philip does. So long as she firmly believes in the justness of her mission, she'll be fine. Elizabeth also seems to me to be highly intolerant of weakness or failure. Philip can't even pretend to say with conviction that the awful things he does is saving innocent Russian lives anymore because he just feels too terrible inside.

I actually got the impression that Gabriel was more in tune to Philip's mental distress than Elizabeth is. At one point, Gabriel flat out asked Philip if he was falling apart. I'm sure it's part of Gabriel's job to intervene somehow if one of his undercover agents started to crack up. He could probably have Philip pulled off field duty and sent back to Russia if he thought that Philip was in danger of cracking.

I don't even think he necessarily knows what for, exactly (and especially not, like, coherently and explicitly - if he had the words, he'd have used them then). I think it's more amorphous than that, more just this overwhelming wanting for things to be different. To be less painful.

It's like the showrunners once said when asked what Philip wanted. They said he just wanted his soul to hurt less.

What interview's that from? I feel like I'd remember it if I'd seen it! That's great - and heartbreaking!

Hmm...can't remember. But it was I think after the season 2 finale and I believe it was a podcast. Maybe on Slate they did one?

Interestingly, I just read an interview that just dropped where they specifically asked about Philip's speech here and they said, as we assumed, that the whole point of it is just that he doesn't know what to say. They said they talked to MR about some of the things that might be motivating him if he could say it, but mostly it's about how he has no idea what to say so the question isn't even if he'll be able to finish but if he'll figure out what he wants to say.

Which I think is kind of important because it's easy to watch the scene and just see Elizabeth tuning him out, but part of the sadness is that even if Reagan hadn't broken in Philip would probably never have been able to communicate anything while Paige is across the hall knowing exactly what she wants to say to Pastor Tim. But in some ways the reason she knows what she wants to say is because she's young and more self-centered. She just knows that she's repulsed at seeing her parents as liars and resents them wanting to make her like them. She's not thinking beyond that. Philip's the opposite. Where Paige can only focus on how she feels and can't move beyond to her parents' pov Philip spends so much time thinking about other peoples' povs that his own is a mystery to him.

Ha! I came over here to link to that interview, and you'd already mentioned it. Here it is in full, and this is the relevant bit:

the whole point of that scene was that he can't express himself. We never wrote past that, although we did have a long conversation with Matthew Rhys in which we shared some of the details that might be on the other side of it if Phillip could articulate it. Essentially, talk to him about what would be in his semi-conscious mind that he couldn't find the words for.

Question of the week #50

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