jae: (theamericansgecko)
Jae ([personal profile] jae) wrote in [community profile] theamericans2015-01-28 07:45 pm
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Episode discussion post: "EST Men"

Aired:
28 January 2015 in the U.S. and Canada

This is a discussion post for episode 301 of The Americans, intended for viewers who are watching the show on the U.S./Canadian schedule. (Feel free to dive in to the discussion even if you're coming in late--and you should also feel free to start a new thread if it seems too daunting to read through what's already been posted first. If you're reading this at a point where you've already seen subsequent episodes, though, please take care to keep comments spoiler-free of anything that comes after season three, episode one.)

Original promo trailer





Episode recaps (including some early-season generalities)

From Grantland
From Vox 1 and 2
From Vulture
From Hitfix
From the Washington Post
From TIME
From the New York Times
From Slate
From Hollywood Reporter
From Slant
From Salon
From the Washington Post
From the New Republic
From Yahoo 1 and 2
From the AV Club
From the Atlantic
From the Boston Globe
From Entertainment Weekly
From TV Guide
From Spoiler TV
From theworkprint.com
From IndieWire 1 and 2
From Slant
From Variety
From thedailynews.com
From Geeks of Doom
From Starpulse
From TV Equals
From Screenrant
From We Got This Covered
maidenjedi: (Default)

[personal profile] maidenjedi 2015-01-29 06:51 am (UTC)(link)
Okay, I have LOTS to say but will have to chime in again tomorrow. I just have to leave one thought - I fell out of my chair laughing at Clark and Martha's foray into the kama sutra.
theplatonicnonyeah: (Default)

[personal profile] theplatonicnonyeah 2015-01-29 08:01 am (UTC)(link)
Where to start...?

Intense first episode, just like the two previous seasons, as well as leaving off on a little cliff hanger. Good television!

Some details:
-less incidental music than before, which I liked, because it left everything much rawer and realer somehow.
-there was a Patagonia poster behind Philip at the travel agent office! (Some of you may know that Matthew has travelled extensively there and also written a book about it, not to mention starred in a film with the same name. A bit of meta!)
-intro music was slightly different
-was the other agent that got beat up not American? At first I thought he sounded British.
-"Frusen glädje" was an actual thing, I read somewhere. I had no idea and it was a fun detail for a Swedish person to see.

At the very beginning, are we to believe that Elizabeth pushed Paige into the water at the bath house? I do get the symbolism of the scene, but was it imagined or real, do you think?

As always, this show brings up the position of women and their changing roles during this time period in so many excellent ways. First with the alcoholic CIA agent retelling how she was ignored when doing a better job than her male colleague. Then Sandra's whole storyline about breaking free from a failed marriage and becoming her own person. Elizabeth dual personality as a "domestic goddess" and mother, while also being a lethal fighting machine. (Gabriel's comment about her being a good American housewife...)
Martha, simultaneously being her own person with a job and her own home, but wanting a family and a man in her life.

I like that even we as an audience don't know what Nina's true feelings are. She obviously has two men who love her in their own way, but I don't feel we have (yet) learned whether her feelings for either of them are genuine or calculated. Maybe she loves both?

Underlying theme of the whole episode was HONESTY, in my opinion. Stan lying to Sandra, Annelise telling the truth to Yousaf, Clark saying "yes" to Martha after the Kama Sutra session, Scott telling Annelise it's ok, Elizabeth telling Gabriel what he/The Centre wants to hear about Paige.

Things ahead: It will be interesting to see what the Gabriel character will bring to this season. We are led to understand he is like a father figure to E and P. But how is he going to use that trust? And of course, Martha's got a gun!
Edited 2015-01-29 08:02 (UTC)
quantumreality: (americans1)

QR's usual Rambliew

[personal profile] quantumreality 2015-01-29 08:12 am (UTC)(link)
- Holy shit, I thought Elizabeth was gonna get nailed right then and there.

- The sexism of the 1970s and 1980s nearly bit the CIA in the ass, considering it led to Lady whatshername nearly selling out for good.

- What the hell was Gaad doing on a thing like this? :O The only thing that saved him was probably that Elizabeth recognized him in the first place. Also, great gambit on her part to put them in the way of the motorcyclist to distract the agent!

- The EST thing seemed quite absurd to me, but eh.

- Stan's brainbox is starting to click! I think he's gonna start figuring out Phil and Elizabeth this season XD

- Gaad with his nose taped up and the other dude even more banged up were both kinda funny :P

- We finally meet old Gabriel! Wonder if he's like, the equivalent of a retiree from the KGB they let stay in the USA for his years of service. (Also: Frank Langella XD ) He seems very tactile and hands-on which probably lent a personal style to his job as handler that Claudia lacked.

- Paige being sweet on the young guy from church was kind of amusing. And she has big poofy 1982 hair! XD

- Elizabeth and that tape! She is first happy, then sad. What happened???? :O

- Stan and Sandra just can't get along :(

- Elizabeth seems to be trying to have it both ways with the whole "fob off the Center and Philip simultaneously" thingo.

- In that light Philip holding his knife after being denied his brownie looked oddly menacing.

- In light of the mess the US got into with Afghanistan and Iraq it's rather eerily strange to see the Soviet side of things involving much the same sort of being-stuck-in-the-bog sensation without necessarily any clear plan for a way out.

- Speaking of, I like Arkady's continued circumspectness contrasted with Oleg's relative outspokenness. Also, an interesting point they addressed re: Nina! They bugged the safehouse, and Stan was a complete idiot for not considering the possibility.

- Martha doing her gun practice is interesting. I wonder if Phil's been messing with her gunsights or her glasses.

- PHILIP AND MARTHA KAMA SUTRA SEX OMFG DED OF LOL NOW

- Elizabeth's peace offering to Philip in the travel agency. Aww :)

- Unfortunately it segues into a sad revelation of the contents of the tape :( Poor Elizabeth's Mom. Chances are she'll never be able to go see her mom one last time :(

- USA and Canada institute person. In real life a person named Georgy Arbatov was one of their high officials and he was actually quite sympathetic to the notion of closer international cooperation.

- And now Elizabeth meets random cute young guy. She's training him! :O Wonder how he got into the spy game.

- Henry! Wonder how he's been holding up. And Elizabeth comes in, and we hear of Brezhnev's death! Of course, for her it doesn't really mean anything, but for Philip and Elizabeth it will mean something more and they'll be wondering what comes next.

- Annelise! :O Looks like Mr. ISI guy made a big mistake, since Philip has something he can hold over him now.
quantumreality: (elizabeth)

[personal profile] quantumreality 2015-01-29 08:13 am (UTC)(link)
I'm not sure! But imagining throwing Paige off into the deep end of a pool is very metaphorical for just dumping on her the fact that her parents are spies for the Soviets.
alley_skywalker: (Default)

[personal profile] alley_skywalker 2015-01-29 09:58 am (UTC)(link)
Sorry to see Nina go, but on the other hand kind of not really? I liked her with Oleg and at first with Stan (although she was horrid for him in the long run), but this makes more sense. Although, gah, as usual in this situation I would have preferred a straight up character death. (Unless they have some way to get her back…)

This brings me to Oleg. (Poor baby.) Actually, Oleg's dad, who apparently thinks that "political ties should not be used for person matters" (jic, I don't know/remember how the English subs translated it, I'm translating straight from the Russian). Which LOL. That's a very un-Russian sentiment. My guess is, Oleg's father just doesn't want to be seen by HIS political "ties" as fraternizing with traitors.

"Now be a good American wife and do the dishes." LOLOL. Oh the irony. Seeing as how Russia's sexism problems were in no way cured by socialism. Oh yes, women worked...and did ALL the housework too (unless it required heavy lifting or a hammer or something).

It's interesting that they don't sub the part where Elizabeth is listening to the tape from her mother. I guess it's to later have the reveal with Phillip, although she doesn't tell him what is wrong with her mother. (Do we have that info from somewhere else in canon? I can't remember.)

Georgley's initial thoughts

[personal profile] georgley 2015-01-29 10:09 am (UTC)(link)
Wow.

Firstly, I'm just so glad the show is back. I don't think I even realised how much I missed it until it started again!

A few things I loved:
-Gabriel!! I love how different he is compared to Kate and Claudia. He's like a father figure to Philip and Elizabeth and I particularly liked that he cooked dinner for them.

- Elizabeth saving the brownie for Philip. Little moments between these two just have so much meaning when we've seen how their relationship has developed over the last two seasons.

- Phil and Stan at EST was hilarious to me. It seemed so awkward.

- Elizabeth getting another tape from her mother. It was also interesting that there were no subtitles during that scene.


I do wonder how much Stan's suspicions have been raised after seeing Elizabeth injured. Her face didn't seem bruised at that point though (or at least it looked that way on my computer screen).

I'm just so glad the show is back!
lovingboth: (Default)

While watching thoughts

[personal profile] lovingboth 2015-01-29 11:18 am (UTC)(link)
The previously contains some spoilers for who's going to be around...

Elizabeth's not in the photos. Don't go down into the bath, stand up :)

The throwing Paige in the deep end memory is a bit of a clunk.

Didn't I mention something at the end of last series about sexism in three letter agencies as one reason not to go for Paige as the new agent?

I wonder who she's calling.

Yeah, I'd be looking at each other at that crap too.

Ah, is she trying to get Elizabeth to stay long enough to be arrested? A significant rumble on the soundtrack there... and a significant look.

I'd have thought she would have switched clothes earlier than that. I wonder why she hasn't done the wig.

Fighting them is a risky thing to do if she's not sure of winning. They've no probable cause for a stop - if they thought she was the one, they wouldn't have been so polite. And that's another... And why not put the critical bit of paper somewhere safer earlier? (And why not have a car close by?)

Oooh, how topical. The Americans are supporting that bunch, of course.

Ha at the put-down of someone we know is right.

Of course, his job as Resident is always at risk too.

Why be visibly hurt in front of Stan?

Stan's looking very thoughtful in the office.

.. now it's Elizabeth's turn.

She's not going ouch when people touch her arm like that or she moves it around though.

Remind me who the Frank Langella character is? Is that a significant ice cream brand?

Stan does not look convinced, does he? No, he's not.

Speaking of not being convinced, I don't like the 'Oh, we recorded her in the safe house, something significant happened, and we didn't bother to tell you dear audience' bit.

Oh, here she is. It'd have been more of a surprise if she wasn't in the 'previously'.

Deliberate cut from one woman quietly crying to another there.

Back to the 'what do you deserve' theme of the end few episodes of the last series.

'Why?' What a good question that - for a FBI agent! - he hadn't expected. Ha at her spotting he was lying.

Ha at the contrast between this sex with Martha and the sex previously.

She's got the ice pack at work - so why hasn't she been going ouch for the previous few scenes? Speaking of ice, that's a cold response to a nice gesture.

Ha, he knows what putting the copier on means when she comes back in, a difficult conversation.

"No, it's ok, I can get to the pavement / sidewalk from here..." I know it's a wide street, but she could be a little closer to the side.

He'd have bugged the room, surely, rather than try to listen through the wall.

Telling him was always going to be a bad idea.

I did wonder if he was wanting to rescue her or blackmail him. He's improvising the latter - it may not have been too late to resuscitate her.
lovingboth: (Default)

[personal profile] lovingboth 2015-01-29 11:21 am (UTC)(link)
The word you're looking for is 'clunky' :)

I think it was supposed to be real - Elizabeth does not currently think of Paige as a little girl, yet it's Paige as a little girl who was thrown into the pool.
lovingboth: (Default)

Re: QR's usual Rambliew

[personal profile] lovingboth 2015-01-29 11:25 am (UTC)(link)
Gun - I don't think you can mess with those sights. It's just that no-one's ever taught her that you focus on the sight, not the target. (He says, knowing that despite never shooting...)
theplatonicnonyeah: (Default)

Re: QR's usual Rambliew

[personal profile] theplatonicnonyeah 2015-01-29 12:40 pm (UTC)(link)
You can learn a lot from tv series... Like how to dispose of a body and er, other useful stuff. ;-)
theplatonicnonyeah: (Default)

[personal profile] theplatonicnonyeah 2015-01-29 12:43 pm (UTC)(link)
I am quite positive we haven't seen the last of Nina.

Interestingly, wasn't Oleg once employed/sent to the US because he had the right connections?

About the tape that Elizabeth listened to, I could clearly discern the word 'doctor' and quickly worked out what her mother was telling her once the tears started flowing also. But knowing this show I am so sceptical of the authenticity of that tape. What's to say her mother wasn't forced to read up the statement in order to push some emotional buttons for Elizabeth?
theplatonicnonyeah: (Default)

Re: While watching thoughts

[personal profile] theplatonicnonyeah 2015-01-29 12:49 pm (UTC)(link)
I spotted that thing about Elizabeth not being in the photos quite early on when they released promos for the season. I am so intrigued!

The hurt arm and ice-pack thing was badly done continuity.

Philip's sex life must be powered by some extra high testosterone and/or aphrodisiac the way he's able to get an erection at the drop of a hat and maintain it with a person he's not really that interested in.
selenak: (The Americans by Tinny)

[personal profile] selenak 2015-01-29 01:00 pm (UTC)(link)


Gabriel being the old/new handler was the one thing I got accidentally spoiled for last month, but other than that, I managed to remain unspoiled, and a great experience that was, too. Speaking of Gabriel, hello, Frank Langella! Obviously a father figure to P & E, and the hugging, not the distant type of father figure, too, and it makes sense that the Centre would bring him back now. But they wouldn't if they weren't sure his loyalties were to the Cause above P & E. Speaking of loyalties, the great thing about these characters with lies as their profession is that you can't tell whether Elizabeth means what she tells Gabriel (getting Paige ideologically ready) or what she tells Philip (just saying that to get the Centre of our back) or whether both aren't true (Elizabeth wouldn't want anyone else interferring with her daughter, but the idea that Paige will eventually be ready to hear the truth about her and accept it, even join, is still incredibly seductive to her).

Stan and Philip at EST were priceless. BTW, I'm with them - it sounds like absolute rubbish. Though I'm also with Sandra in that Stan keeping lying to her to avoid confrontation is absolutely systematic of why their marriage broke apart (and she can still read him like a book).

Elizabeth's tape from her mother: I was surprised at first that we didn't get any subtitles. Then I thought, maybe it's because the Centre is putting some extra pressure on Elizabeth (who is ideologically more reliable generally) re: Paige and that's what the mother says, some sort of blackmail. But I suppose it was simply to build up the later revelation scene with Philip, i.e. that her mother is sick. Oh, and the fact Gabriel has a tape for Elizabeth and none for Phiilp confirms my theory Philip has no living relations in Russia, methinks.

I don't get why Elizabeth didn't get rid of her wig and glasses look as soon as she was out of sight of that bar? Seems to be solely for a Doylist reason (so that Gaad doesn't get to see her real look later).

CIA sexism making a female CIA agent, Charlotte, nearly become a mole: no sympathy for the CIA here. It's probably pretty realistic. Once again we see Elizabeth being a good spy: she picks up on Charlotte having changed her mind and thinks of wiping her glass for prints before leaving immediately.

Stan teaching Martha how to shoot: that Chekovian gun is so going to get used this season, I tell you. Along with the Chekovian glasses: they might give Stan the idea of having some do another sketch of their female Illegal, without them. But I'm not clear on how the show would justify him figuring out P & E's identities this season if they want to continue.

Also: speaking of set up, I wonder whether Stan will make a deal - Nina versus deserter the FBI is supposed to protect now?

Arkady and Oleg: Nina not reporting two of her meetings with Stan is a bit of a retcon, but I don't think it necessarily means Nina was in love with Stan, just that she was keeping some information to herself to trade, just in case. (The way she never told Stan about the Weinberger clock even before coming clean with Arkady.) Anyway, Oleg continuing to want helping her regardless of her emotions for whomever is very sympathetic. But Arkady is right, Oleg really can't blurt out his true thoughts in their type of society. The new character, Tatiana, looks a bit like Agent Scully, I thought.

And speaking of people who shouldn't reveal the truth, poor Annalise. For someone who started out as pretty one dimensional, she certainly became affecting. The show keeps Philip on the grey side of morally ambiguous by letting him not figure out what is likely happening until the lamp falls (and then reacting at once), but also, professional that he is, using the situation immediately to get leverage on Yousef.

Past as comment on the present: the Afghanistan execution video, obviously. Methinks our writers have a "these were the demons we conjured up ourselves" message going on.
lovingboth: (Default)

[personal profile] lovingboth 2015-01-29 01:12 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, to the gun stuff.

Stan doesn't have to live to tell what he's found out. The show could survive without him...
lovingboth: (Default)

Re: While watching thoughts

[personal profile] lovingboth 2015-01-29 01:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Getting an erection when you're not interested in someone is part of male sex work 101. He would be thinking of something that does work for him, possibly the power dynamic.
theplatonicnonyeah: (Default)

Re: While watching thoughts

[personal profile] theplatonicnonyeah 2015-01-29 01:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, yes, I suppose that would be it. Or we just have to sort this one into the "suspension of belief" box. ;-)

(Although, in the car scene there was no particular reason for him to get an erection. It didn't seem pre-meditated for them to have sex at that point. In fact, I got the impression they had stopped doing that some time ago, from what Annelise said.)

With Martha we've definitely seen Clark's "sex face" of focused torture - LOL!
quantumreality: (arkady)

[personal profile] quantumreality 2015-01-29 02:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Yep, Oleg worked his dear old dad's connections something fierce to get into the KGB even though he was a punk-ass little snot when he first got sent to D.C. :P
quantumreality: (Default)

[personal profile] quantumreality 2015-01-29 02:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Gabriel being the old/new handler was the one thing I got accidentally spoiled for last month,

Actually, didn't they complain about "where Gabriel was" way back in Season 1? ISTR Claudia showing up was a bit of a surprise to P&E.

Past as comment on the present: the Afghanistan execution video, obviously. Methinks our writers have a "these were the demons we conjured up ourselves" message going on.

I thought so too. The subject has been mooted ever since September 11, 2001 when it was realized especially early on by some folks that OBL was part of the same CIA/ISI backed mujahedeen groups that once fought the Soviets and later, Najibullah's government.
Edited 2015-01-29 14:47 (UTC)
jo_lasalle: (bunnies incognito)

[personal profile] jo_lasalle 2015-01-29 02:56 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm surprising myself by saying that the motorcycle action piece was my favourite part of the episode. It was both really cool action, and not OTT action movie stuff, but totally believable. (And I feared for Gaad. I am weirdly fond of Gaad.)

(Though I was a little surprised that, given Elizabeth knew the CIA operative had changed her mind and people were looking for her, she just kept walking. I don't really know much about the spy profession, but wouldn't it have made sense to dive into an alley or try to get into a house instead of walking continously?)

Frank Langella seems cast to type and yet this was the first time I liked him in that type of role. :-) Go figure!

I can't make up my mind about whether the Afghanistan video parallel is too on the nose for me, or just evilly clever commentary.

I thought the choice of showing Elizabeth listening to the tape without subtitles was very clever. I don't know how obvious this would be to a North American ear, but I clearly heard the 'doctor' in all the Russian I didn't understand, and together with the realisation on Elizabeth's face I knew what was up before she talked to Philip -- it was a very elegant way to play that scene, IMO.

The crack about the 'American housewife' doing the dishes annoyed me, though. I sincerely doubt that Russian women were not the ones stuck with the dishes even when they weren't housewives. (If anything, I'd assume American women got out of doing dishes earlier because dishwasher...)

Something is definitely going to happen with Martha and her gun this season...
jo_lasalle: (bunnies incognito)

Re: Jae's thoughts on second watch

[personal profile] jo_lasalle 2015-01-29 03:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Arkady and Oleg! I loved that scene.

My favourite bit was probably Oleg recounting how his father said one should never use political connections for personal gain, and Oleg was clearly finding him cold and horrible, but I was kind of, 'Yeah, that's actually how it's supposed to go'. (Though I'm unsure how the show intended this to read and whether it was more with me or with Oleg. *g*)
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)

Re: Kama Sutra

[personal profile] sistermagpie 2015-01-29 03:13 pm (UTC)(link)
I guess I can say this now, but that was one of the things I saw on the writer's board I wasn't supposed to be looking at. It was breaking down the ep and I saw Philip/Anneleise sex and Clark/Martha karma sutra. I think I even said something like "Philip's going to be busy this season." To find out that was a breakdown of one episode is all the more hilarious.
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)

[personal profile] sistermagpie 2015-01-29 03:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, Frusen glädje was a real thing that existed for 5 minutes in the 80s attempting to capitalize on people liking Haagen Daaz. Like HG, it had a foreign-sounding name, but it was actually gibberish. Frusen glädje was not Swedish. It was made in the Bronx or something. Elizabeth would probably kick herself for falling for it!

ETA: Actually, more accurately, I think the name was not gibberish, but there was a mistake in it. Perhaps one of the accents, I think. So it looks like Swedish but by people who in no way speak Swedish.

(Gabriel's comment about her being a good American housewife...)

I thought that was really fascinating because we've so often *seen* Philip and Elizabeth doing dishes together, or even just Philip washing one. They don't have a completely progressive marriage or anything but especially last season they seemed to use the kitchen showing them doing that chore together. I'd wondered if taking care of the kids on his own just made Philip much more used to doing housework. So Gabriel saying that to Elizabeth was really a comedown from her real domestic life, and not really accurate about "American housewives" either--but it was probably meant to inspire her anti-US feeling just a bit.
Edited 2015-01-29 17:10 (UTC)

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