jae: (theamericansgecko)
Jae ([personal profile] jae) wrote in [community profile] theamericans2015-01-28 07:45 pm
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Episode discussion post: "EST Men"

Aired:
28 January 2015 in the U.S. and Canada

This is a discussion post for episode 301 of The Americans, intended for viewers who are watching the show on the U.S./Canadian schedule. (Feel free to dive in to the discussion even if you're coming in late--and you should also feel free to start a new thread if it seems too daunting to read through what's already been posted first. If you're reading this at a point where you've already seen subsequent episodes, though, please take care to keep comments spoiler-free of anything that comes after season three, episode one.)

Original promo trailer





Episode recaps (including some early-season generalities)

From Grantland
From Vox 1 and 2
From Vulture
From Hitfix
From the Washington Post
From TIME
From the New York Times
From Slate
From Hollywood Reporter
From Slant
From Salon
From the Washington Post
From the New Republic
From Yahoo 1 and 2
From the AV Club
From the Atlantic
From the Boston Globe
From Entertainment Weekly
From TV Guide
From Spoiler TV
From theworkprint.com
From IndieWire 1 and 2
From Slant
From Variety
From thedailynews.com
From Geeks of Doom
From Starpulse
From TV Equals
From Screenrant
From We Got This Covered
theplatonicnonyeah: (Default)

Re: Gaad

[personal profile] theplatonicnonyeah 2015-01-29 08:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, I must admit I never had much sympathy for him.
But that shrine did give an insight into why he appears to closed-up.
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)

Re: Philip's erections

[personal profile] sistermagpie 2015-01-29 08:33 pm (UTC)(link)
One of the recaps has the bizarre idea that Philip had sex with Anneleise outside of work, like it wasn't necessary. But I think it clearly was. Just as he had to tell her he was jealous of Yousef he couldn't turn down sex with her. He was trying (even though it was impossible) to continue playing the part of someone in love with her. Rejecting a blow job would be OOC.

But it's another interesting parallel, showing that sex doesn't always create intimacy or confidence in the other person.
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)

Re: Oleg's father not using connections for gain

[personal profile] sistermagpie 2015-01-29 08:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, I didn't actually take it as Oleg thinking it was horrible so much as just anger at his father for making a decision like this about something important to Oleg. Oleg thought it was worth it in this case and his dad obviously didn't.
theplatonicnonyeah: (Default)

Philip in the USSR

[personal profile] theplatonicnonyeah 2015-01-29 08:40 pm (UTC)(link)
I always got the impression that Philip had no relatives left in the USSR. Given that they were supposed to have been born in the 40's, it's not impossible that his parents died during the war.

I think it was fairly common to recruit young men (and probably also women) from orphanages, because they would be much easier to manipulate into good little soldiers. Although, Philip having grown up in an orphanage slightly contradicts his happy (?) memory of having played swords with icicles as a child. I don't know, he has never mentioned his parents and we've only seen him in flashbacks as a young man with Irina. His background is possibly darker and more lonely than Elizabeth's.
theplatonicnonyeah: (Default)

Re: Philip/Stan slash

[personal profile] theplatonicnonyeah 2015-01-29 08:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Er, I have. It was a very short piece, but it should be on AO3 somewhere. Same username there.
theplatonicnonyeah: (Default)

[personal profile] theplatonicnonyeah 2015-01-29 08:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, I mentioned it in a comment to someone else (?) further down in the thread. So many comments here!

Scott is not a Swedish name at all. Annelise is a very old-fashioned name, more likely to be something her mother or even grandmother would be called. It would have made more sense to call him Lars/Kennet/Hans and her Ann-Kristin/Charlotte/Susanne. I was a little bit unimpressed by the lack of research there. It would have been so easy to just check online what baby names were popular during the 40/50s in Sweden.
theplatonicnonyeah: (Default)

Re: Philip in the USSR

[personal profile] theplatonicnonyeah 2015-01-29 08:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, I'm thinking they may have taken young children, not teenagers, and started training them from a young age. I'm fairly certain there was at least some sort of programme to use these children in one of the East European countries at some point in time. But might have been Rumania? I vaguely remember hearing about it when the Wall fell.
theplatonicnonyeah: (Default)

Re: Scott the Swede

[personal profile] theplatonicnonyeah 2015-01-29 08:52 pm (UTC)(link)
I honestly never got the hang of what Scott was supposed to be. "A Swedish intelligent agent"? Whatever the h*ll would we be wanting with one of those? It's not as if we ever were a nation with aspirations of world domination.

Sweden has always been this neutral zone that both the US and the former USSR had interests in, but mostly to keep as a buffer between each other.

Sidetrack: one of our most famous spies for the USSR, Stig Bergling, died the other day. He was convicted in 1979, escaped prison in 1987 and fled to the USSR with his then wife, only to return a few years later.
lovingboth: (Default)

Elizabeth's face while in the bar

[personal profile] lovingboth 2015-01-29 08:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, I loved that too! "Yeah, yeah, it's just as bad in the KGB, get on with it..."
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)

Re: Philip not getting tapes from home & Oleg's dad

[personal profile] sistermagpie 2015-01-29 08:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I should rewatch the Gabriel scenes again before I comment on this because my memory could be warping things, but I really came away with a dynamic where Gabriel was like the grandfather who was very skilled in drawing out the shy grandchild/not grandchild.

Like as I remember it Elizabeth just comes in and hugs him. Philip hangs back, but Gabriel reaches out to push his face--which is not only adorable but a way of reaching out to him himself physically without going full hug. Then later he sends Elizabeth out of the room for her "present" hidden in the kitchen and brings out Scrabble. I could just so see this with an adult who knows the ways to deal with the kid who won't ask for attention but wants it. Philip wouldn't ask for Scrabble and he wouldn't expect it, but really would appreciate the thing that *he* does with grandpa. It's hard to think they weren't very aware of that in the whole scene where Philip and Elizabeth are SO SO set up as the children to Gabriel's grandfather.

Maybe part of it too is that it's such a change from Zhukov and Claudia where they allowed Philip to just be in the background.
Edited 2015-01-29 21:04 (UTC)
soupytwist: Dude says NO to heterosexuality. (mmm... vice)

[personal profile] soupytwist 2015-01-29 08:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Ooooh, LOTS to think about with this.

Does anyone think that Phillip's plan all along involve Annelise dying? I mean, I think his "this is a terrible thing" was not a lie - I think he does think that - but having it be part of a strategy anyway would not surprise me. Although realising he could use an accident to his advantage wouldn't be difficult to believe either. Hmm.

I love the humour - the cut from "at the news Brezhnev is dead" made me laugh inappropriately. (Also, nice way to say hey, Paige may be headed down a road of Communism but she clearly isn't there yet.)

The FBI are waaay more on the ball this time and holy crap, they've remembered the Illegal they were chasing before! Nicely done, show, you're not messing around.

I dunno what I think of Gabriel - I'm glad we finally met him, but his "hahah now be a good American wife and do the dishes", like Soviet wives didn't do almost all the bloody dishes too and like the end result of him saying that isn't still HER DOING DISHES, annoyed me. Even if the main point was the delivery of the tape, eh. Elizabeth asking the dudes if they want food, while again completely in character, also just made me sad because damn, woman just had a terrible near miss, must be in a lot of pain as well as sheer shock, and she's asking if she should make them something to eat.

The Beemans make me sad. Both of them.

MARTHA!!! Martha getting her Kama Sutra on was brilliant/hilarious, if only for Philip's 'omg' facial expressions. Also I love that Stan is helping her learn to shoot, and the fact that they wouldn't give us that scene if Martha weren't going to be using that skill in some kind of important and relevant way...

Oleg and Arkady: I liked the nod that wow, they speak much more openly than I understand real Soviets would have. Also, their relationship is weirdly endearing to me. I love that they both care about Nina. Also amused to see that dudes have been doing the spread-and-lean sitting pose since forever, apparently....

Basically, what a great opener! SO MUCH STUFF, PEOPLE. AAAH.
theplatonicnonyeah: (Default)

Re: Philip/Stan slash

[personal profile] theplatonicnonyeah 2015-01-29 09:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Hang on, it wasn't on my AO3 account. It's probably only on my LJ then.
Ok, published it now. It's called Love Me Tender and I would probably like to go over it and edit. Written in 2013...
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)

Re: Scott the Swede

[personal profile] sistermagpie 2015-01-29 09:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Here's my fanwank. Maybe Philip met her as Scott Peterson in some other capacity--say, he was working somebody else and met her at a party of something--and then realized what a good asset she would make because of her husband and her personality, so then adjusted "Scott's" backstory to give him some ties to Sweden. Because she herself is supposed to have some ties to the country, but I don't think she's supposed to actually be from there. That in itself was a common thing, I think, to pretend to be from a country the person felt positively about.

Because it's just so weird and blatant that they haven't tried in the least to actually pass off this character as Swedish.
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)

Re: Philip in the USSR

[personal profile] sistermagpie 2015-01-29 09:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, if he was from an orphanage I would guess he'd made his way to school and impressed with his grades and was recruited from there.
sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Default)

Re: Philip in the USSR

[personal profile] sistermagpie 2015-01-29 09:36 pm (UTC)(link)
I usually run into two thoughts on Philip's past. The more popular one--that I have too--was that he was orphaned young. For me, the only contradiction is him being sent to buy milk. That sounds like a time when he had a caregiver. Icicles are freely available to orphans in Siberia I would bet!

The other view is people who mistakenly think we've been told Philip's past and that Elizabeth's was rougher. This one always fascinates me because it's such an illusion. Like Philip's given the impression of having told all and it was comforting when he's said nothing.

On the orphan side, it just seems really based in what we do know of the guy. Psychologically it really fits with his personality in multiple ways. Plus it certainly explains the lack of any family back in the USSR. Of course it's possible his family died after he left and he used to get tapes, I guess. But it's just weird that they never come up if he had a normal relationship with a family until he entered training at 17 or so. Or left the US at 22.

Exit strategy

[personal profile] treonb 2015-01-29 10:12 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't understand why she continued walking, knowing that the FBI might be cruising the streets.

Re: Jae's thoughts on second watch

[personal profile] treonb 2015-01-29 10:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Although my very favourite bit about that operation was the way it signalled right upfront that the FBI will be more of a threat this season. Gaad having contact with Elizabeth--and seeing her face--was the perfect setup for that. It was very much a "we're not in season two anymore" sort of feeling on that front, and I appreciate both the fact of that and the incredibly clever way they managed to signal it narratively.

I loved the episode, it was such a great start for the season. And I think this is exactly why. The FBI are back! Though Stan is still being put in the position of not being able to put the pieces together. I have a feeling he won't stay that way for long. If he does, his char can really pack up and go.
quantumreality: (americans1)

Re: QR's usual Rambliew

[personal profile] quantumreality 2015-01-29 10:32 pm (UTC)(link)
That being said, the whole point is that he didn't really like the idea of her having one in the first place, and I got the vibe that he mainly didn't like it because it might give Martha ideas about self-confidence in her skills and abilities that would have unanticipated effects on her value as an asset.
quantumreality: (nina)

Re: Nina

[personal profile] quantumreality 2015-01-29 10:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Yep, Annet's name is in the opening credits, incidentally. And yes, I plan to look at symmetries again in light of the slight changes :P
Edited 2015-01-29 22:33 (UTC)

Re: Oleg's father not using connections for gain

[personal profile] treonb 2015-01-29 10:34 pm (UTC)(link)
I also thought he was just recounting his father's excuse. The way he smiles when he says it, he obviously doesn't believe it, and I doubt Arkady buys it either.

It's also why Oleg has no trouble saying what he thinks. He knows his father is there to protect him.

Stan, Sandra and EST

[personal profile] treonb 2015-01-29 10:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Switching gears, I loved that Stan tried EST in order to win Sandra back, but I loved even more that he invited his good friend Philip to go with him. That says a lot about where he thinks their friendship is.

Stan is really stupid. All he had to do was tell Sandra: I went to EST because I miss you, because I wanted to understand you better, because I want you back in my life.

Instead he went for the "it must be good, I wanted to do it too". That is NOT the way to get Sandra back.

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