Andy Greenwald: Let's go back a few weeks. There's that scene where, after probably my favourite episode of the season, where Elizabeth is pretending to be Clark's sister, and they have a boozy conversation about what an animal Clark is.
Joe Weisberg: And you think we're not funny.
Andy Greenwald: Okay, again, that was funny!
Joe Weisberg: You can't talk about how funny the show is and then say it's not funny.
Andy Greenwald: I apologize. I was just suffering through the last two episodes. But that led to--okay, so that was funny. But then look what you did, that led to the roleplay scene, the sexual roleplay scene between Philip and Elizabeth, that was again--horrible! And I think, really bold on the part of you guys and your writers, because that was there for you to--it was there. It seemed like an inevitable endpoint. But it would have to take great skill and care to pull it off. I think you did. But I imagine that must have taken a lot of conversation on how to do it correctly.
Joe Weisberg: *sighing* We spent a lot of time on that, and it's a devastating scene, and even after they're together, he goes into the bathroom, that's another--it's part B of the devastating scene. *sighing*
Joel Fields: Intimacy is--is scary. It's scary to open up what's really inside, and if you want to be with somebody, you want to be married, you want to share more and more of yourself, but the more you do, the scarier it is and the more there's danger for rejection. Particularly when you've got some secret self-loathing.
Andy Greenwald: Yeah. Or a lot.
Joel Fields: And I'm just speaking about myself, I'm not even talking about the show.
*everybody laughs*
Andy Greenwald: No, I just thought we could then pivot into talking about The Americans on this.
Joe Weisberg: You know, there were very interesting discussions on the scene later, which is another scene I love, where they're doing the dishes afterward. And she actually apologizes to him.
Joel Fields: Yeah.
Joe Weisberg: And so many people very reasonably said: "why is she apologizing to him?" Which is a perfectly reasonable comment, I mean, in an aware, therapized, everybody knows what the hell is going on world, I think he probably would have apologized to her. Or everybody would have apologized to everybody, or of course, they would have never been in that situation.
Joel Fields: Right.
Joe Weisberg: But some people pointed out--and I think this was something we had actually said--and again, we like to be open to everybody's interpretations, so none of this is sort of posited as "what's right." But that on some level, conscious or not, she intuited that she had asked him to step outside of his identity, when their identities are already so fragile.
Joel Fields: Yeah.
Joe Weisberg: Not that she would phrase it that way, or understand it quite in those terms.
Andy Greenwald: Because Philip Jennings is itself a cover.
Joe Weisberg: Exactly.
Andy Greenwald: That they had--there has to be some baseline. There has to be something that can be relied upon.
Joel Fields: But who knows what's on the other side of that chasm. In other words, a season from now, two seasons from now, in all of these things, as deep as the valley is on the other side, there should be something better. You can make the journey.
Transcript of the BTRD-related bits of the Grantland/Andy Greenwald podcast
Joe Weisberg: And you think we're not funny.
Andy Greenwald: Okay, again, that was funny!
Joe Weisberg: You can't talk about how funny the show is and then say it's not funny.
Andy Greenwald: I apologize. I was just suffering through the last two episodes. But that led to--okay, so that was funny. But then look what you did, that led to the roleplay scene, the sexual roleplay scene between Philip and Elizabeth, that was again--horrible! And I think, really bold on the part of you guys and your writers, because that was there for you to--it was there. It seemed like an inevitable endpoint. But it would have to take great skill and care to pull it off. I think you did. But I imagine that must have taken a lot of conversation on how to do it correctly.
Joe Weisberg: *sighing* We spent a lot of time on that, and it's a devastating scene, and even after they're together, he goes into the bathroom, that's another--it's part B of the devastating scene. *sighing*
Joel Fields: Intimacy is--is scary. It's scary to open up what's really inside, and if you want to be with somebody, you want to be married, you want to share more and more of yourself, but the more you do, the scarier it is and the more there's danger for rejection. Particularly when you've got some secret self-loathing.
Andy Greenwald: Yeah. Or a lot.
Joel Fields: And I'm just speaking about myself, I'm not even talking about the show.
*everybody laughs*
Andy Greenwald: No, I just thought we could then pivot into talking about The Americans on this.
Joe Weisberg: You know, there were very interesting discussions on the scene later, which is another scene I love, where they're doing the dishes afterward. And she actually apologizes to him.
Joel Fields: Yeah.
Joe Weisberg: And so many people very reasonably said: "why is she apologizing to him?" Which is a perfectly reasonable comment, I mean, in an aware, therapized, everybody knows what the hell is going on world, I think he probably would have apologized to her. Or everybody would have apologized to everybody, or of course, they would have never been in that situation.
Joel Fields: Right.
Joe Weisberg: But some people pointed out--and I think this was something we had actually said--and again, we like to be open to everybody's interpretations, so none of this is sort of posited as "what's right." But that on some level, conscious or not, she intuited that she had asked him to step outside of his identity, when their identities are already so fragile.
Joel Fields: Yeah.
Joe Weisberg: Not that she would phrase it that way, or understand it quite in those terms.
Andy Greenwald: Because Philip Jennings is itself a cover.
Joe Weisberg: Exactly.
Andy Greenwald: That they had--there has to be some baseline. There has to be something that can be relied upon.
Joel Fields: But who knows what's on the other side of that chasm. In other words, a season from now, two seasons from now, in all of these things, as deep as the valley is on the other side, there should be something better. You can make the journey.