Season one group rewatch: the pilot

[jae]

This is the discussion post for the pilot episode in the group rewatch of season one. When you rewatched the episode, was there anything you noticed that you didn't notice the first time (and any subsequent times) you saw it? What things about it did you perhaps view differently after having seen the later episodes?

You can expect spoilers for the entire first season in the comments.

Comments

[treonb]

I found I got quite nitpicky on second viewing, but here goes:

- I loved how they had Tusk playing through the entire abduction sequence.

- Driving like crazy to make the hand-off was really stupid. They were really lucky not to have been caught, because any passing patrol car could have ruined the op.

- I loved the understated humor, already in the beginning: we've got Timoshev getting constantly kicked down, Philip sending Robert to the hospital with his 'you can deal with anything' spiel, and then missing the hand-off ("why is everyone so punctual in this business"). Then later on, moving from the basement (spying) to the house (family) - I love when they do that so naturally.

- Learning Russian - I wished they'd have continued with it. Also Stan's undercover job. He's the mirror of Philip/Elizabeth in that sense, but they didn't really build up on that.

- On first viewing I missed some of the 80s stuff, like Paige working on the typewriter. It's so cute :-) Also Elizabeth putting down the teacher, which I guess was becoming non-acceptable in the 80s.

- The two scenes, first with the ice-cream, where Elizabeth actually enjoys seeing Philip 'train' the kids (until it gets to her), and then Philip listening to the tape, where I think he's actually proud of Elizabeth.

- The defection idea - I didn't remember Elizabeth getting so upset about telling the kids. It seems like it's one of her greatest fears, even worse than betraying the Motherland.

- Elizabeth and Philip's meeting and first date

- I don't understand why Philip invited Stan down to the garage. They must have been some other way to do this. And shouldn't the rental have jumper cables?

- Elizabeth says she'll die before she betrays her country, and Philip repeats that when they're tortured by the KGB. I don't really understand how he flipped from wanting to defect to not saying a word while being tortured to death.

- During the Timoshev fight scene - He's been tied up for a couple of days, it's a wonder he can even walk, let alone fight. And Philip seems awfully dense in understanding what happened.

- Cleaning the car - I'd love some of that cleaning material. I have never managed to get stains out so nicely. And the audio's off, but that's really nitpicking.

As for Philip and Elizabeth - I can't say rewatching this really helped me understand their dynamic.

[sistermagpie]

My other favorite humor moment is Philip saying see, he told Elizabeth they should have put in a secret room and she says "You mean the wine cellar you wanted to put in below the laundry room?" and he says he did say it would have other uses. I love their domestic/spy conversations.

I think Philip took Stan to the garage because Philip suspects from the start that Stan is toying with him so he's going to go down or get away clean. He doesn't really believe Stan's innocently asking for jumper cables so doesn't bother to pretend he doesn't have them. At least that's how I read it.

Re: Philip, I don't know if he really flipped regarding the KGB. I think he was considering defecting when he thought they were made and he could get out ahead of it to save his family, but he never would have just broken under torture if he wasn't sure it was the best thing for him. When he's kidnapped in Trust Me I don't think he sees himself in a good bargaining position, plus he knows that Elizabeth would be counting on him and he wouldn't want to put her in danger. Dying for his country was probably never a problem for him.

Do they fully drop Stan's learning Russian? It's used well in Trust Me but I'm with you--I wish they'd bring it up again because I've no doubt Stan must be near-intelligible in Russian. Really I want a scene where he says something in Russian to Philip and Philip totally sincerely just says "What?"

I don't actually think Philip is being dense understanding what happened, just shocked at taking in the emotional impact. He pretty much does pick up on exactly what happened the minute Timoshev says what he does. He just wants one of them to say it.

[treonb]

My other favorite humor moment is Philip saying see, he told Elizabeth they should have put in a secret room and she says "You mean the wine cellar you wanted to put in below the laundry room?" and he says he did say it would have other uses. I love their domestic/spy conversations.

Me too :-) And that coffee scene you mentioned - I didn't really notice that at first (or second), and went back after your comment.


When he's kidnapped in Trust Me I don't think he sees himself in a good bargaining position, plus he knows that Elizabeth would be counting on him and he wouldn't want to put her in danger. Dying for his country was probably never a problem for him.

Good point. I guess in both cases, he's got his family as top priority, and he'd do whatever it takes (dying, defecting) to take care of them.

Do they fully drop Stan's learning Russian?

Not fully, but enough that it doesn't matter anymore. And Amador should have been quite fluent after a few years, but nothing.

Really I want a scene where he says something in Russian to Philip and Philip totally sincerely just says "What?"

That would be really cool. And it would have been good at the beginning, if Stan was trying to sound Philip out.

I don't actually think Philip is being dense understanding what happened, just shocked at taking in the emotional impact.

OK, I can accept that. But on the other hand, I'm thinking that if there was institutionalized rape there, it couldn't have gone unnoticed this way. Or could it?

[sistermagpie]

OK, I can accept that. But on the other hand, I'm thinking that if there was institutionalized rape there, it couldn't have gone unnoticed this way. Or could it?

Good question. I would suspect that he did know about it, or assumed it happened, or at least wouldn't be surprised by it. I think the men recruits would probably talk about how of course the top guys were sleeping with whatever cadets they wanted. But it was probably also easy for him to just not think about this translating into young girls getting raped against their will on a regular basis, and it was probably easy over the years to not think it could have happened to Elizabeth.

[katiac]

I mean, I would think there would still be an aspect of secrecy and shame for the female cadets which would make it not talked about, and it would not be something going on out in the open for the male officers where he might have observed it. And then the fact that he and Elizabeth had been married and known each other for nearly 20 years at that point, I think we can read from his reaction in the bedroom of, "So why didn't you tell me about Timoshev?" that they had gotten to a level of comfort around each other that he kind of expected she would've said something if that'd been the case. Of course, we find out over the course of the season that Elizabeth has been keeping a lot of secrets and telling some lies, but at the point Philip is now, he doesn't really know the degree to which she hides herself from everyone.

[katiac]

Driving like crazy to make the hand-off was really stupid. They were really lucky not to have been caught, because any passing patrol car could have ruined the op.

What I can't understand is why they would ever have used the family car. I mean, from a plotting standpoint, I get it, they needed a reason for Stan to get suspicious, but given how easily they seem to have cars the rest of the series, this makes as little sense as Zhukov coming to the US to ask a question that could've been sent through their handler. I'll have to square it in my mind that every other car in the area was in use that night, but...

The defection idea - I didn't remember Elizabeth getting so upset about telling the kids. It seems like it's one of her greatest fears, even worse than betraying the Motherland.

This is absolutely one of my favorite Elizabeth moments because I think you're exactly onto it, that she carries a lot of fears about the kids, despite one part of her telling herself for years that they aren't supposed to matter, that it's just for cover. Clearly, there's some major conflict there for her and it bubbles up here and there.

Elizabeth says she'll die before she betrays her country, and Philip repeats that when they're tortured by the KGB. I don't really understand how he flipped from wanting to defect to not saying a word while being tortured to death.

My take on that was that in the moment they were going to trade in Timoshev, he actually had some bargaining power. Like it would buy his kids' safety and he was coming from a position of power. In "Trust Me" they kidnapped him, tied him up and started beating the crud out of him. They didn't offer to make a deal, and he really had nothing to gain by talking.

And Philip seems awfully dense in understanding what happened.

I give him a little slack for that one because he's known this woman for almost twenty years and she's very secretive, and even lies outright. So poor old Phil has probably been kept guessing a lot of the time, and the revelation that your wife was raped and kept that secret for 20 years is a huge shock to take in.

[treonb]

What I can't understand is why they would ever have used the family car.

Didn't even think of that! Yes.. lots of stuff in the pilot seems to have been there to drive the story. or maybe they only thought later of them having this entire fleet at their disposal.

Also, good points about the defection and the rape. Maybe I was too harsh on Philip, poor thing.

[apolla-savre.livejournal.com]

I don't think Philip was willing to defect, really, if it weren't for the circumstances. He's got two kids to think about whose lives will be shattered when they find out that their parents are spies from the Soviet Union. It's about them. He's been away from his homeland for about twenty years, which is a lot of time for every place to change. He's not pure Russian, not American, he doesn't have any place to be and if it's a choice of being discovered and either placed in jail or being sent back to the USSR in disgrace (and potentially prison in Siberia), he'll choose the best for his family which happens to be defecting. Getting closer to his wife also strengthens his love for the USSR. She loves it so much and it's what brought them together. Being tortured probably set his mind back to training as well, so he kept quiet.

They do a bit more of Stan's Russian, there's the bit with Amador and the candies (which I originally thought were pins and when he put one in his mouth, I freaked. Then I realized they were like M&Ms or something.) I imagine they'll do more of it later on.

[katiac]

It's kind of a tricky situation for Philip because I think by the point they're at, he's starting to face the reality that their luck will eventually run out. We see how close they come at points during the season to getting captured, or someone figuring out the truth. If that happens, Henry and Paige's world is destroyed anyway. So while I don't think he's actively trying to get out because he doesn't like spying... I think that danger to his family is always lurking somewhere in the back of his mind too. Obviously the best case scenario is that he and Elizabeth keep spying and nothing ever happens... but the likelihood of them being able to do that indefinitely without getting caught is pretty low, and gets even lower when they're asked, starting with Timoshev, to start doing more dangerous things.

[sistermagpie]

What's even more ironic I think (correct me if I'm wrong) but I think if he was caught he probably would be sent back to the USSR in some sort of trade and would probably be considered a hero back there. But his children would be devastated. And if they had to go with him--which I'm not sure they would because if they were born here I would guess they're Americans regardless of their parents' status--they would be rightly furious that they were put in that position.

It's interesting to think about that with regard to Gregory's choice later. Philip seems much more in tune with what the choice would look like to Gregory than Elizabeth, who Keri Russell recently said she believed starts the series thinking that bringing the kids back to the USSR would be fine.

[apolla-savre.livejournal.com]

There's really no way to know. Plenty of Soviet POWs were sent to the Gulags after they returned home because they'd been in enemy territory and were accused to collaborating. There were spy exchanges, but there were also spies who probably were left to rot on their own in American prisons.

Twenty years in America, the fact that they'd probably object to leaving behind some of their kids' things, the children would probably get into trouble which would lead to blaming the parents and it all really depends on who's in charge, when they'd be caught/sent back, or anything really. After Stalin, Gulags and prison sentences tapered off a bit, but they're still sort of practiced - just not to the extreme they were. Plus, Moscow could always refuse to claim them/deny knowledge and with no way to show a Soviet passport and all forged documents, they wouldn't be able to get in publicly if Moscow didn't want them.

Elizabeth is really naive. When they suggested Gregory go to Moscow I about choked on my water. I love Russia and all, but I'll be blunt: a lot of them are racist as hell. An African American in the 80s would probably end up committing suicide if he had to live there for the rest of his life. No one would really trust him (he's a foreigner, it's the USSR, someone might be looking for traitors), he'd be isolated, no one would have his culture, he wouldn't know the language, he's used to a nice apartment, if he got put in a kommunalka tensions would probably rise, and he would not be prepared for the weather. She has this idea that all that matters is that he's fought for the cause, but that's not all that matters.

The kids would fare even worse. They'd been raised as Americans, aren't fully capable of understanding the ideology disagreements, Paige is materialistic (all the leg warmers which will start a famine :) ), used to a better quality of life, don't speak a word of Russian, and they'd arrive in the decade before the Soviet Union falls, the economy goes into haywire, and they would have to fight in the Soviet job market where who knows what would happen. In the 80s, they'd make friends because they'd be the epitome of the underground western culture but that'd really be it of the perks.

[sistermagpie]

Yeah, that's what seems to bleak to me is even if they got the kind of hero's welcome that Claudia and Elizabeth are promising Gregory, it would still be a nightmare because of the kids. Either the kids would stay in the US as citizens but be in foster care, or they'd go to Russia where they would be totally miserable. If Elizabeth thought it was hard to adjust to the US back in 1965 imagine if she got dumped there without speaking a word of English and everyone knowing she was a potential enemy. And that's if they get the hero's welcome. There's other possibilities that would be even worse where the kids might have no one. It's like the only good ending is if Elizabeth and Philip never get caught.

Which they seem to basically both acknowledge by the end of the season when they make plans to split up so that one of them can run with the kids to Canada. They've really only got each other to depend on.

[katiac]

Elizabeth is really naive. When they suggested Gregory go to Moscow I about choked on my water. I love Russia and all, but I'll be blunt: a lot of them are racist as hell. An African American in the 80s would probably end up committing suicide if he had to live there for the rest of his life. No one would really trust him (he's a foreigner, it's the USSR, someone might be looking for traitors), he'd be isolated, no one would have his culture, he wouldn't know the language, he's used to a nice apartment, if he got put in a kommunalka tensions would probably rise, and he would not be prepared for the weather. She has this idea that all that matters is that he's fought for the cause, but that's not all that matters.

I think a lot of what went on with Elizabeth and Gregory, more than perhaps naivety, was projection and, as Elizabeth says to Paige later on, seeing in them what you need to. Like that example is perfect because even right up until the end, she can't wrap her head around the idea that Gregory isn't going to want to go to Moscow. She's projecting her own idea (and her own wants--to go back to Moscow as a hero) of what he would want rather than seeing what's really there.

And Gregory kind of does the same thing with her. Like he tells Philip she would sacrifice the kids for the cause, and then later, actually suggests to Elizabeth that they run off together and leave the kids. So either he's completely heartless and would ask this of her despite knowing it would destroy her (which I don't believe), or he's simply in denial about what Elizabeth's family actually means to her. They mean nothing to him (and in fact are very threatening to him since they tie her to Philip) and so he's deluded himself into thinking they mean nothing to her because that's so much easier to face than the truth. Really, it's kind of like how Philip deluded himself into this one idea of Elizabeth pre-pilot, and part of his arc over the season was having to come to terms with who the "real" Elizabeth was and whether or not he could love her. And (this is off-topic) that was one of the most beautifully illustrated parts of the 10th episode because it was so sad to see what once seemed so right and true shown to have been based on what they both had needed to see, not necessarily what was there, and to have them both realize it, to one extent or another, just before Gregory's death.

And I can't even imagine what it would be like for the kids. Because even to have to deal with the ramifications of the lies Philip and Elizabeth have told them, while in the US and still reasonably comfortable... that could take years to get over. It would be even worse than for Elizabeth, even worse than everyone seeing them as a traitor, or not speaking Russian, because Elizabeth at least made the choice herself to take that step. They would essentially be ripped away with no say in the matter besides, "Do you want to go into foster care or go to Russia?"

[apolla-savre.livejournal.com]

I hadn't made that connection (seeing what you want to see) but it makes absolute sense.

Poor Elizabeth. Poor Gregory.

And I don't think Elizabeth could ever give up the kids, they're pretty much the only thing in her life that's never betrayed her (except for Paige, to a degree, but I think Elizabeth realized that Paige didn't hate her, she hated the situation and couldn't understand why it was happening.) They're all she really has. She can be true to them because she's their mother and regardless of whether she raised them in Russia or the USSR, she would raise them in the same manner, just with different languages and available topics. To them, she's "mom", not "Nadezhda" or "Elizabeth Jennings". There's no dual personality with them. Of course, she lies to them about her background, her main job, and stuff.