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theamericans2018-05-30 02:48 pm
jae) wrote in theamericans2018-05-30 02:48 pm
Entry tags:
Episode discussion post: "START"
Aired:
30 May 2018 in the U.S. and Canada
This is a discussion post for episode 610 of The Americans (the season and series finale), intended for viewers who are watching the show on the U.S./Canadian schedule. (Feel free to dive in to the discussion even if you're coming in late--and you should also feel free to start a new thread if it seems too daunting to read through what's already been posted first.)
Original promo trailer
30 May 2018 in the U.S. and Canada
This is a discussion post for episode 610 of The Americans (the season and series finale), intended for viewers who are watching the show on the U.S./Canadian schedule. (Feel free to dive in to the discussion even if you're coming in late--and you should also feel free to start a new thread if it seems too daunting to read through what's already been posted first.)
Original promo trailer
general review
Was it all worth it?
Discuss, lol.
Was it all worth it?
For P&E: We don't know what would have happened if they wouldn't have been sent to the US. Elizabeth said she and Philip might have met on a bus, but most chances are that they would have never met. Why would they even be in the same city?
For Oleg: his actions changed history. I'm still not sure it would have been so horrible for him to tell the FBI what he knows, but if he wouldn't have come and risked everything, the anti-Gorbachev people at the KGB would have succeeded with their plan
Re: Was it all worth it?
Regarding P&E, I would say that my question only makes sense if we look at their life in the US. So, was everything they did worth it in the end? Yes, they probably paved the way for glasnost and a more stable East/West relationship. But they also lost their children. What they did was for the greater good, but there was a huge personal loss as a result. Is that a price they would have paid gladly, had they known the outcome before going into their mission?
Re: Was it all worth it? (Elizabeth)
I was thinking that same thing. Ultimately, I believe Elizabeth in particular thought she was prepared for this very scenario, giving up everything she loves for her country. And when Philip said, no, we can't take Henry, and it hits her that he's right, you can see her break apart. That certainty she'd had all along turns out to have been a brave front. She'll end up doing what is required, but the cost....
Was it worth it?
-J
Re: Was it worth it?
But I meant for all the characters in the series.
The ending reminded me a lot of American Beauty, where there is no real happy ending for anybody, but perhaps somewhat hopeful for some.
Re: Was it worth it?
I think Philip would say no, and Elizabeth would say yes.
I think Stan would say no.
I think Paige would say no.
I think Oleg would say yes (though through gritted teeth).
I think Arkady would say yes (at least in 1987, and probably for a few years yet).
I think Martha would say no (though with a shrug--she's making the very best she can of that 'no').
-J
Re: Was it worth it?
It's not about telling the characters anything.
I was looking for a discussion on what the characters may have thought themselves. I explained it more in the comment above yours.
All of the things that all of the characters have experienced, good and bad, add up to a point in this episode where - at least to me - this question underlines everything. In the end, what did they all achieve and at what cost? It's a very human thing, trying to weigh the pros and cons of an action before you commit to it, but also to look back and maybe regret things.
P&E escaped back to the homeland, but they lost both their children. They "won" their mission, but they lost something irreplaceable in their personal life. It's food for fanfiction, their life from this point on. How will they relate to each other? With resentment, love, regret? Will they find joy and contentment in being heroes (for a time, at least)? Or will the loss of Paige and Henry outweigh all of that?
I have no straight answer myself.
Re: Was it worth it?
With Paige, would she be referring to knowing the truth or her parents' mission and lying? No to the latter...maybe yes to the former.
Re: Ne è valsa la pena?
(Anonymous) 2022-06-13 05:55 pm (UTC)(link)Re: general review
In both cases, I think the answer is yes.
To have only one really bad episode in six seasons is more than most series manage, for example.
Re: general review
Re: general review
I don't remember a bad episode as such, just a bad scene or two, and the one that always springs to mind first is the death of the old lady in... season 3 or 4 (I forget which), in which she gets to lecture Elizabeth endlessly before she dies.
The one really bad episode
-J
Re: The one really bad episode
Is the one you don't like the one about Irina? I know there are several people here who don't the Mischa Jnr storyline (which they actually bookended very well last season, I thought, and think even more now the show is over).
Re: The one really bad episode
I didn't like a lot of things about the Irina storyline, including the actor they chose to play her. But there were good things about that episode, too, so I wouldn't call it bad overall.
-J
Re: The one really bad episode
Re: The one really bad episode
The inexplicable critical acclaim of "Electric Sheep"
Like, I started reading this piece today? But any ranking that has "Electric Sheep" as the second-best episode of all 75 and the amazing "Behind the Red Door" as the second-worst episode makes me run in horror. Bleagh.
-J
Re: The inexplicable critical acclaim of "Electric Sheep"
Re: The inexplicable critical acclaim of "Electric Sheep"
Re: The inexplicable critical acclaim of "Electric Sheep"
Re: The inexplicable critical acclaim of "Electric Sheep"
Ian's version of the really bad episode
The whole setup of the episode was bad in that, after telling us that lots of people could fit a bug to the mail robot - bad enough in itself - Philip and Elizabeth 'had' to go somewhere completely undisguised without any scouting of the location. Then Elizabeth hears a noise, uncharacteristically stupidly goes off to investigate, and unsurprisingly ends up being seen. Given the totally unnecessary lack of disguise, as soon as that happens Granny Minutes Tolive has to die, so it actually happening is completely unmoving and uninteresting - Jae's comment at the time that she was a device and not a person is spot on.
It could have been about the 'how', if it were difficult to find a way to kill her without it being obviously murder and so avoiding the subsequent investigation (not that this version of the FBI ever did look for fingerprints!) But no, we get 'Oh, here are my suicide pills' very early on, and the show expects us to care about the 'if', when it is screamingly obvious that there is no 'if'.
What saves it from being really bad is that the episode had nice stuff about family and death and killing and faith, particularly in the scenes between Philip and Gabriel. You could edit out Granny and have an episode that actually worked.
For me the really bad one is S01E09, Safe House, where there is no saving it because it all stinks. Shockingly, I see this insult to the viewer's intelligence is #14/75 on the Vulture list.
To recap, Philip spends the night with Martha. In the morning she says 'Oh, my boss is planning to assassinate a KGB agent', and as Philip is leaving, Amador tries to detain him because he's jealous that it's not him who's sleeping with Martha. Amador is stabbed, but it's not poor Philip's fault because it's Amador who pulled the knife.
Amador ends up where he was always going to end up - in the trunk of the car, stabbed or not - because he's seen Philip out of disguise, and off they go to the safe house of the title..
.. where Philip and Elizabeth, knowing that the FBI are going to kill someone on their side, don't actually bother to ask Amador who, where, when, and how. Instead of actually torturing him, they accept a simple 'I know nothing' and are busying giving him pain relief.
Rather than, oh, report the plot to anyone. Even when Amador finally mentions that it's Arkady who's the target. (Because hey, why not just reveal your second biggest secret just because someone he knows is a KGB agent says it's past the time the op was planned?)
Philip and Elizabeth also know that there is a mole in the KGB - we know it's Nina, of course - but they don't bother to even attempt to find out who. In one scene, Stan is sure Amador didn't tell them who it is, but even he doesn't even bother to say that perhaps he was never even asked about his biggest secret!
Then when Arkady has a hurt hand and decides not to go on his run, Stan goes and kidnaps someone else anyway. Gadd is only slightly annoyed at the potential international incident (being ordered to kill the known KGB resident in retaliation for a series of murders by the KGB is one thing, kidnapping a random diplomat on your own initiative is quite another!)
Then Amador finally dies - of the stab wound, saving Philip and Elizabeth from actively murdering him, as they were planning - and they leave the body in a way that screams the KGB dunnit rather than making any attempt to hide it while pointing the FBI at, say, a cuckolded husband being responsible for his disappearance despite knowing that there are plenty of those in Amador's life.
To cap it off, kidnapped Vlad then goes 'yep, I am KGB' to Stan, thus allowing him to be lightly shot in the back of the head with a relatively clean conscience.
Had there being a second episode as bad as this in series one, I would never have bothered watching series two.
Re: Ian's version of the really bad episode
The problem with Electric Sheep is that the writer clunkily put the main characters into an unnecessary situation and we're expected to pretend the outcome wasn't obvious.
The problem with Safe House is that the writer made the main characters behave incredibly and uncharacteristically stupidly and we're expected to pretend we accept that.
Re: Ian's version of the really bad episode
A nitpick but no, he never saw Philip out of disguise. He was always Clark. The problem was that Amador was threatening to take Clark to the FBI offices.
Re: Ian's version of the really bad episode
It's been a while since I saw the first series, although there will doubtless be an 'official' rewatch here at some point :)
Re: Ian's version of the really bad episode
Also, I'm glad that, for the most part, the show didn't do stupid stuff like this.
Re: Ian's version of the really bad episode