theamericans | Episode discussion post: "Harvest"

I think Elizabeth does have a bit of a point. Philip might well have been ideologically committed when he first started out, but the years have shown him what it actually means to do that kind of work - to have to live a lie 24/7 to the point where it almost seems the truth, and then on top of that to commit all kinds of illegal and immoral acts in service to his country.

And some people are better at compartmentalizing than others. Elizabeth is a bit better at it than Philip, I think.

Also, re: Paige.

I think she's getting her first serious dose of cold water about what she's really getting into. I really do think Elizabeth will have to make her kill somebody very soon now, because Marilyn didn't make it and Elizabeth will need to press Paige into her place until she can "hire" someone else down the road.

[I wonder how Elizabeth finds such fellow travellers, anyway. Does she just post a help wanted ad that reads 'casual work required; must not ask questions"?]

Henry's talking a bit too much at the moment, not that they know that yet. Some people would find it much easier to kill a sibling than a random stranger :)

There's a terrifying thought - Paige "silencing" Henry :O

He's still talking a hell of a lot less than Paige ever did--and Paige is still the one who recently put on a martial arts display in a bar.

I don't think Holly Taylor could ever convincingly do a scene where she killed anybody, personally. Plus they just reiterated in this ep that Elizabeth's still trying to portray their job as the good guys. Elizabeth even tried to save that poor man in the park who shot himself in the face. Why would she be telling Paige to put out a hit on anybody?

I don't think that Paige would kill Henry.

I think Elizabeth does have a bit of a point. Philip might well have been ideologically committed when he first started out, but the years have shown him what it actually means to do that kind of work - to have to live a lie 24/7 to the point where it almost seems the truth, and then on top of that to commit all kinds of illegal and immoral acts in service to his country.

Elizabeth left out the part about how Illegals can retire. Philip was obviously very much cut out for the work for many years. If he'd just been able to go home and retire he'd have been a hero. Elizabeth claiming that you have to commit forever is her own issue about herself--and of course she has to tell Paige that because Paige is a traitor and has no home country to go home to if she retires.

Elizabeth isn't actually being good at compartmentalizing any more than Philip is. She's just made everything her job.

I think she's getting her first serious dose of cold water about what she's really getting into. I really do think Elizabeth will have to make her kill somebody very soon now, because Marilyn didn't make it and Elizabeth will need to press Paige into her place until she can "hire" someone else down the road.

Really? I don't. I think Elizabeth plans to keep Paige totally ignorant of the killing they do. She didn't tell Paige at all about the ugly parts of the mission, just that Marilyn and Harvest died--iow, she made it heroic with them as the victims, not the people she killed or that she chopped Marilyn up. Then she had her apply for an internship for Elizabeth's version of her spy career where she isn't in danger at all.

It's not the Mafia. They don't make you kill people just so you're in. Paige has already done enough to put her in prison, even if she probably doesn't get that that's her reality.

Elizabeth left out the part about how Illegals can retire. Philip was obviously very much cut out for the work for many years. If he'd just been able to go home and retire he'd have been a hero. Elizabeth claiming that you have to commit forever is her own issue about herself--and of course she has to tell Paige that because Paige is a traitor and has no home country to go home to if she retires.

I agree completely. We know they can retire. They know they can retire to a hero's welcome back home. It's Elizabeth who can never retire because this cause is her whole life.

Paige is a traitor and has no home country to go home to if she retires

Paige can defect to Russia. There were RL spies who did that

Absolutely, but she can't go home there. For Paige she'd be in exile in a country she's never set foot in, she wouldn't be going home.

I don't know... she has no friends besides her family at this point. She could make Russia her home (theoretically, since in reality she'll get there and probably discover how she's been misled.

Paige might have no actual friends in the USA but she wouldn't have any in Russia either and she'd find it far easier to find ones--or a new leader--in the US.

I mean, of course she could make a home there. Martha did. But I don't think she'd want to at all. I think Paige would have a ton more reason to feel misled about the place since she's so incredibly misled about what she's doing.

We know that they arrived in the US in 1965, and Philip (mostly) retired some point after 1984. That's at least nineteen years of being a top agent, and that's not a mistake.

And after his retirement he was still the one providing regular intel on the head of the Soviet Division at the CIA.

Maybe Elizabeth is really trying to downplay his whole career as a mistake because she doesn't want to accept that people burnt out. It needs to be yes or no for her. If you're right for it, you're right for it forever.

Meanwhile Elizabeth seems to be well on her way to blowing the entire network of Illegals because of a lot of sloppy decisions.

Episode discussion post: "Harvest"

Re: While watching thoughts

Paige killing someone

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Re: Elizabeth's real talk

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Does Elizabeth have a point?

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