Episode discussion post: "Echo"

[jae]

Aired:
21 May 2014 in the U.S. and Canada
25 May 2014 in Israel
7 June 2014 in the UK

This is a discussion post for episode 213 of The Americans, intended for viewers who are watching the show on the U.S./Canadian schedule. (Feel free to dive in to the discussion even if you're coming in late--and you should also feel free to start a new thread if it seems too daunting to read through what's already been posted first. If you're reading this at a point where you've already seen subsequent episodes, though, please take care to keep comments spoiler-free of anything that comes after season two, episode thirteen.)

Original promo trailer

"The Americans Season 2 Episode 13 Promo - Echo [HD] The Americans 2x13 Promo" (Watch on YouTube)

Episode recaps

From Grantland
From Time
From the Washington Post
From Rolling Stone
From the AV Club
From Hitfix
From IGN
From the Huffington Post: Karen Fratti, Maureen Ryan
From Vulture
From Variety
From the Tampa Bay Times
From Sound on Sight
From Collider
From Paste Magazine
From Gawker
From the Cloture Club
From tv.com
From tvrage.com
From Headline Planet
From spoilertv.com (in French)
From TV Ate My Wardrobe
From GAMbIT Magazine
From showratings.tv
From Comments Enabled
From Boob Tube Dude
From Unreality Primetime (UK)

Comments

Re: Second generation illegals

[alisonx]

Haha it's taken a while for me to cotton on to what you mean. I think in my head I've been imagining E/P doing all the heavy manipulating and stuff but really what they're doing would be opening the door for the KGB to come in and do their magic on Paige. So if they did decide to do this, they would want to be in control (as Emmett and Leanne so clearly weren't), but it would still be somebody else other than Philip and Elizabeth doing it...right? What I mean is, was Kate brought in after Emmett and Leanne wouldn't agree to it, or was this the original plan to have Jared honeytrapped, and the only thing that didn't go according to plan was E/L's initial permission.

They don't want an unreliable agent, they want someone they can trust.
I guess we don't know much about the particulars of Jared's story, other than he knew Kate for a while, and then had the massive showdown with this parents. Wait, so the audience still thinks the KGB has no idea that Jared killed his parents, right? I mean, when he was doing his confession, it seemed like Kate would have known what went down and the only thing he wanted P/E to pass on was that he was a loyal soldier till the death. So did they think Jared was reliable, and still do? Or do they think he was unreliable, but made a massive fumble and didn't pull the plug.

Yeah in talking about the headhonchos, are we supposed to take it as, Jared has his deathbed confession, P/E pass message off to the Center, Claudia comes back and fills them (and us) on all the blanks. OR was it implied the KGB knew all of this before P/E and were keeping them in the dark. I think it's the first option, but then how did Kate not know if she was so close to Jared, surely the meeting in the pub wasn't their first meeting since the murders?

Re: Second generation illegals

[jae]

I think in my head I've been imagining E/P doing all the heavy manipulating and stuff but really what they're doing would be opening the door for the KGB to come in and do their magic on Paige.

I guess that's just my assumption? I mean, there really is very little known about how the recruitment of the children of illegals went in real life, but to me it would seem utterly bizarre to expect a couple to actually run their own daughter as an agent. Philip and Elizabeth have spelled out very clearly that they would have to consent to her recruitment or else, and we know through Claudia that the KGB expects that they would do the prep work for that recruitment (and I suppose that only makes sense), but I can't imagine a scenario where they would be the ones to run her.

What I mean is, was Kate brought in after Emmett and Leanne wouldn't agree to it, or was this the original plan to have Jared honeytrapped, and the only thing that didn't go according to plan was E/L's initial permission.

My guess is that there was no plan yet when Directorate S first approached Emmett and Leanne. If they hadn't reacted so adamantly against the idea, the Center probably would have devised a plan with their help; as things were, they devised a plan without their help. There's no reason to think the plan would have been completely different with their input, though. It did turn out to be a good way to turn Jared.

Wait, so the audience still thinks the KGB has no idea that Jared killed his parents, right?

Given that Claudia came to Philip and Elizabeth in the end fully in the know (and she herself says she hadn't been in the know before), and with new orders from the Center, I think it's pretty clear that the KGB now does know that Jared killed his parents. So I think it's your first option: "Jared has his deathbed confession, P/E pass message off to the Center, Claudia comes back and fills them (and us) on all the blanks."

how did Kate not know if she was so close to Jared, surely the meeting in the pub wasn't their first meeting since the murders?

Well, as sistermagpie pointed out elsewhere in the conversation, there were a bunch of things that Kate did well with Jared, but there were also places where she slipped up and missed things, so she might not have been the best person to handle that particular job. So I guess in evaluating this situation over at Directorate S, there might well be people who want to make the situation simple and pin all the blame on Kate, rather than taking another look at the techniques they use to recruit the children of illegals (or the notion of doing so in the first place). That would certainly explain why they're not putting a stop to the programme in light of what happened.

-J

Re: Second generation illegals

[alisonx]

With the last point, what I meant when I said "did Kate not know" I wasn't talking about his psychological break and extreme identity issues before the murder, I mean after the murder, did Jared not tell Kate what had happened? The way he was telling P/E these things hoping that they would be passed on to Kate, it felt like he was asking the first part to be passed on (that he saved their lives for the cause) and the second part (about the hotel murder) was just to fill them in. I can see why he would want to keep the murder hidden from the KGB, but I feel like he would think he and Kate have this great love story and he would tell her soon after it happened of this great heroic thing he did so they could be together for the cause. Am i reading this entirely wrong.

Did Jared ever tell Kate about the murders?

[jae]

Oh, wow, I didn't even think about that! I guess I had been assuming that Jared hadn't told anyone until he told Elizabeth, but now I don't know why I assumed that. You're right that it would be strange for him to keep it from Kate when his assumption is that they have a great love story going and will be together forever. Huh.

What do you think?

-J

Re: Did Jared ever tell Kate about the murders?

[alisonx]

The thought literally only occurred to me as I was writing the second to last reply....

Re: Did Jared ever tell Kate about the murders?

[treonb]

That's how I understood it. That Jared had told Kate, and that's why the Center did not want any investigation into the matter. Claudia wasn't told and therefore teamed up with P&E for their own investigation.

Btw, I wonder what happened to that boyfriend Claudia had blamed.

Re: Did Jared ever tell Kate about the murders?

[jae]

Wow, you're right that that would explain why the Center initially abandoned their investigation. So yeah, that must be how it happened. I don't know why that didn't even occur to me!

As for the boyfriend, if she was having Philip and Elizabeth secretly doing the investigation, I can't imagine she was passing those suspicions on to the Center. And if she'd killed him herself, she would have mentioned that to Philip and Elizabeth for the sake of their investigation. So the boyfriend is probably still safe (although she probably slipped out of his life once she realized she'd told him too much).

-J

Re: Did Jared ever tell Kate about the murders?

[alisonx]

But if that is the case, I find it kind of laughable.

Because Kate would tell the KGB "hey guys my asset i'm honey trapping killed his parents who were loyal kgb illegals and gathering great intel." Then the KGB covers up their murders, or at least hushes it all up and doesn't investigate or tell anyone else. Then they get the bright idea they want to continue this with Paige. So then they send Kate, to be p/e's handlers. And they protect both Kate and Jared's covers even though Jared is pretty much dead as a source of information goes, and Kate's incompetence as a handler goes unchecked. And they send her to their two of their best illegals in DC.

Re: Did Jared ever tell Kate about the murders?

[jae]

Yeah, you're right. What it boils down to is "protect the second-generation programme at all costs, even if it means endangering existing illegals." Risking imperfect but excellent agents for the potential of a silver bullet someday, in other words. And in light of all that, there has got to be controversy in the ranks of Directorate S right now on whether this is the right way to handle things. Hasn't there? I mean, really.

-J

Re: Did Jared ever tell Kate about the murders?

[alisonx]

But even then, surely they'd see the absolute DEBACLE the Jared thing was (assuming Jared told Kate who told KGB) and send somebody OTHER than Kate to Philip and Elizabeth ? Given that they sent Kate some time after the murders. Was this supposed to be Kate's chance to redeem herself?

Why keep Jared alive if he was so volatile. Why was he even still valuable to them at this point when they realised how psychotic he was (he wasn't a psychopath I just like using this word to express just the disaster this was).

I agree there must be controversy, but I don't mind them wanting to try again. I do mind them using Kate for Jared and Paige....

The first generation illegals are so meticulously trained and so pinpoint perfect, and they're really willing to risk it all without taking time to workshop the ideas or collaborate - yeah there must definitely be some internal argy-bargy going on in those Directorate S offices

Re: Did Jared ever tell Kate about the murders?

[lovingboth]

Yep.

If I were wanting to start a 'second generation'-type programme, I'd open an adoption agency. Find some kids who are 100% American with traceable real parents and back stories, then place them with some KGB or sympathisers and get to work on them. Such kids are likely to have reasons to dislike the US system too.

I would not start risking some of my main existing assets.

Re: Did Jared ever tell Kate about the murders?

[alisonx]

So why wasn't Claudia told even though she was their handler?

Re: Did Jared ever tell Kate about the murders?

[katiac]

Yeah, that would explain why they put someone guarding Henry and Paige in the 3rd episode and then randomly pulled them. Those first three episodes were back to back timing wise, and that's about right for Kate to make contact again, meet with Jared, find out the truth and get back to the Centre. If Claudia is kept out of the loop, she keeps assuming it's Larrick, or worse case, her boyfriend, and pursues that lead.

Putting someone on Henry and Paige and then pulling them

[jae]

Ooh, right! I had completely forgotten that we still hadn't had an explanation for that.

-J

Re: Second generation illegals

[sistermagpie]

I got the impression the KGB knew all along who killed them (or at least soon after, probably from Kate) because that's the reason they weren't investigating. They went straight into cover-up mode without telling Claudia, which is why she launched her own investigation.

Re: Second generation illegals

[alisonx]

See, when they covered it up to make it look like a normal murder, we assumed it was just so no suspicion would be drawn. And even more so this would be applicable if Jared was the killer. The problem is JARED WAS THE KILLER. A highly unstable kid who killed his own parents who were loyal illegals but the KGB still thinks he will be a valuable asset further down the track? They can't possibly think this scenario was a "good outcome" or one that could be salvaged, so why promote Kate? Why leave Jared susceptible and vulnerable. I guess they really did trust him as a second generation illegal and they saw he had shown his loyalty (by killing his parents) ....so really the moral of this story is, if Paige killers her parents and becomes a valuable 2nd Gen Illegal, she will have been the Jared that never was.

Re: Second generation illegals

[sistermagpie]

It almost seems like the only reason Kate was sent to P&E was so that we would know the character. Maybe the only reason she was sent to them was that the KGB didn't hold her responsible for what happened with Jared and P&E really did need a handler since they didn't like Claudia so they sent her Kate because she's an available handler in the area.

It kind of works for me in that I can imagine Kate running her scheme with Jared and feeling like she's awesome at her job (even if ultimately that went badly) and then she meets two experienced Illegals who see her flaws as glaring. That she tended to react to those criticisms by being a bit defensive just underlines that they're right and she didn't see things through. So by the end of the season it feels like Claudia's their real handler because they need someone on their level.

I just can't believe they saw Jared as a valuable Illegal when he proved himself so profoundly psychologically unstable. Not to mention, he was still only being strung along by being duped into thinking he was in a grand love affair. The kid brought nothing valuable to them, proved fairly easily manipulated and duped and killed two of their best agents. He was a menace.

Re: Second generation illegals

[alisonx]

I completely agree with the last paragraph he was a menace and yeah!! If he was so easily honeytrapped himself how could they possibly think he was a good agent. What is with this plan they concocted anyway? To honeytrap someone into working for their cause? That's rocky ground - which is why it does make sense for them to think that the parents laying the groundwork and doing all the manipulating is the better option (though the harder one for me to imagine in reality).

But if they didn't see Jared as potentially valuable down the track, why not off him straight away. But why wouldn't they hold Kate responsible though? We assume that either a) the KGB are in agreement that this plan became a fiasco or b) they think they can salvage the situation if Jared actually manages to become a CIA/FBI agent one day.

In scenario a), they've got to blame someone. They wouldn't blame themselves for the idea, they haven't blamed Jared and haven't blamed Kate so I guess the blame falls on Emmett and Leanne. But that makes no sense to any logical person...

In scenario b) they would be kidding themselves. I know Kate did do her job of honeytrapping well, but she really didn't do her job of recruiting very competently, and as such why risk her again with two valuable agents and their daughter.

Re: Second generation illegals

[jae]

Of course he was easily honeytrapped himself--he was a teenage boy being approached by a beautiful woman! He doesn't have to be psychologically unstable for that, he just has to be manipulable, and I think you'd have a hard time finding any sixteen-seventeen-eighteen-year-old boys who aren't vulnerable on that front.

I'm guessing the theory was that Kate could mould him over the years and shape him ideologically that way. It's not that farfetched, either--it was actually working when it all went wrong.

-J

Re: Second generation illegals

[sistermagpie]

Well, there's really no indication that Kate was there to work with Paige at all. They'd already lost the Connors when she went to the Jennings, so I think she was just supposed to be their handler, like we saw.

On terminology

[jae]

One nitpicky correction: the kids of illegals who become spies aren't actually illegals themselves--illegals are spies who live under cover identities in foreign countries as nationalities not their own, and these kids wouldn't be doing that. On the show they're calling this sort of spy a "second-generation illegal", probably by analogy with the term "second-generation immigrant," but these kids wouldn't themselves be illegals any more than the children of immigrants are actually themselves immigrants. :) What they are is a kind of agent like Gregory or Fred--a special category that's probably more directly affiliated with Directorate S, but still just a regular spy.

-J

Re: On terminology

[sistermagpie]

Good point. I think I'll start saying 2ndGens. It was bugging me to use that term too because the whole point of these 2Gen kids is that they are NOT Illegal. That's why they can more easily work at the CIA.

Re: On terminology

[treonb]

They're not illegals, but they do face problems and issues that are specific to them, as the kids of a parent generation of illegals.

So, if not 'second generation', what would you call them?

Re: Second generation illegals

[katiac]

Yeah, sending Kate to P/E seems very random.

It's interesting with Jared because at the point he was at, he was just an all-around disaster, but then from the KGB's perspective they might've also looked at him and seen someone who would eventually come out of the instability and harden into a devoted KGB killer who would push everything else from their life--sort of like Elizabeth. I'm sure looking back they weren't thrilled with how it went down with the loss of Emmett and Leanne, but since that was done with and couldn't be fixed, salvaging Jared (if possible) was kind of the only move left.

Re: Second generation illegals

[sistermagpie]

To me, it seems like while they could very well have had this opinion of him before he killed his parents, after he did it he would have to be dropped. The KGB has proved able to make bad decisions, but that would just go beyond the pale for me. There's no second chance after you flip out and kill valuable agents in an adolescent rage because you can't see your girlfriend. Jared did more damage to the Illegals program than Larrick and Stan combined and he doesn't even really regret it because he's still clinging to the idea that he's the real agent here.